Thursday, 1 August 2013

And now the news in Slavic ...

Take a look at the war memorial below. It's pretty typical of many I have seen in Germany and Austria but a little different to those found in our English towns and villages. Typically, ours will have a substantial list of Great War dead and a shorter list, perhaps a third the length, of those that died in World War II. German memorials are reversed, the ratios of 2m military dead in WWI to 7m military dead in WWII shown by the red and green outlines. Many like this one will also have an auxiliary panel listing victims of civil war, Nazism, bombing or other. 

Reich losses in WWII were tremendous - and largely incurred in the East, in the great battles in Russia and in final defence of Germany. Even when the shooting stopped, the deaths didn't; half a million German soldiers died in Soviet POW camps, their names here amongst those in the block in the bottom right with no date of death. Germany is still building new war cemeteries in Russia, the current one to hold 400,000 dead - half the UK's war dead total for WWI. Of course the cost in Soviet and Russian lives was even more horrendous, costing whole generations. 

Now I'm certainly no historical revisionist and hold David Irving in academic contempt, but one can't help but pose the question to what extent Western Europe has gained from the German losses in WWII in emasculating the Soviet Union to a point from which it never recovered; and is the victory in 1989 that we ascribe to Thatcher and Reagan really due to Albert Speer and Wilhelm Keitel? 

Without those 7m German war dead, would we be hearing the news in Slavic? 

22 comments:

Wildgoose said...

I am given to understand that the first Russian troops sent to stop the German invasion promptly defected to the German side, only to discover that the genocidal National Socialists were just as bad as the genocidal International Socialists.

I wonder what would have been the result of an invasion that was NOT led by madmen?

formertory said...

Whilst touring round Belgium and north-eastern France in the shadow of my grandfather's WW1 service as a stretcher bearer, I came across the Vladslo German War Cemetery. Very, very different to the rigid formality of the CWGC sites for the Allied fallen, the dead are remembered with names carved in black stone markers laid horizontally; 20 names to a stone.

The German sculptress Kathe Kollwitz created a pair of magnificent statues representing her and her husband, grieving the loss of their son Peter, whose name is on the stone that the father stares at.

It's a quiet and reflective sort of a place and brings home vividly that the German soldiery were for the most part as young, as innocent and as reluctant as the young Allied servicemen.

I make a point of visiting Vladslo every time I go to do a bit more of my grandfather's route round the Western Front. After all, if I can get dust in my eyes (couldn't be anything else, surely?) at Tyne Cot, Flers, Messines, Beaumont Hamel and the Menin Gate, why not Vladslo.

It has a restful air and one might swear that at some as yet undiscovered and only dimly perceived fringe of human consciousness it's possible to feel the presence of tens of thousands of dead comrades-in-arms, no less worthy for being German.

formertory said...

Sorry, meant to include a link to Vladslo.

Anonymous said...

No.

The Russkies have won, they left the apparatus and fundamentalism of harsh communist Marxism firmly embedded in Western Europe and particularly here in Britain.

Labour, Miliband, is an old fashioned communist steeped in Marxist dogmas gotten from his father's and friend's knees. Jack Straw student agitator, Trotskyite and rabble rouser nonpareil helped 'open the gates', Brown always harboured commie tendencies and worshipped big government and the control state economic model.

Cultural Marxism, agitprop in the DDR has been exported and imbibed in Britain, both were 'gifts' from Soviet Russia.
Brussels, is the personification of 'old style revamped' communism - the only 'institution' missing are the gulags and they cannot be far away.
Already the state can make you personna non grata, when we go digital we will be chipped and then its sorted.
Total control, that was always a wet dream in Soviet Russia - Brussels eventually realised their ambitions - Tovarich.

G. Tingey said...

Anonymous
You are off your head - mow bugger off & take your dried frog pills.

ON THE SUBJECT ....
No: - the SovUnion was paralysed already in 1939-41, because of Stalin's terror - read either Conquest or Bullock (preferably both) on the subject.

In the meantime, I have just returned from my annual dance-&-drinking visit to Nordrhein-Westfalen.
The local village had a census population, in 1938, of over 980, so subtract women, subtract men over 50 in 1939 & any males born after 1930 (i.e. 15 or younger in 1945) - that leaves, perhaps 300-350 males.
How many on the WWII list?
Approx 175.
Higher than 40% DEATH rate, in other words.
Makes one think.

Weekend Yachtsman said...

@ G.T. I agree.

The USSR would have fallen anyway because of its internal contradictions and general (esp.economic)utter incompetence.

Only a madman like Stalin could hold it together, and even he not for long.

Once we was gone it was all downhill, slowly but surely, to 1993.

Good riddance.

But what a shame the left in the UK still hanker after those old certainties...

Anonymous said...


"The EU is the old Soviet Union dressed in Western clothes"
(President Gorbachev)

Anon 2 said...

Anonymous --- Yes, you are right. We are now ruled by Communists (not necessarily Russian). That Wall came down and they just carried on infiltrating - through education - all our other institutions. It's what the KGB called Demoralisation (see Bezmenev on internet).

That's why we now have liblabcon: all Marxist. That's why they now merrily set us all against each other (and the immigrants) via -isms and the pretence that there is Left and Right. The ancient process of Divide and Conquer is what the KGB called Destabilisation.

As we approach the next phase: Crisis (Civil War), they prepare their/our military resources for use against us in Normalisation: a final enforcement of Communist totalitarianism.
________________________

Oh - and the English language? Have your naysayers tried to understand what other factions say -- e.g. in the depths of some black ghetto? Do your opponents understand the depth of hatred, and that the 'rappin' ' speakers never intend to accept how 'white' English works?

Or e.g., have said naysayers tried to understand the way Deconstructionist (Marxist) 'filosofers' use English ... re-inscribing the meaning of every word they can to make nonsense of communication. That's their method for destruction of language.
_________________

We didn't win a thing. They just kept on rolling through our culture. All our sacrifice of the twentieth century will have been wasted, unless we admit we have WWIII on our hands... and do something about it.

Elby the Beserk said...

The wall fell because the iron curtain countries economies were crashing. If Maggie and Ronnie helped that along the way, their part was minimal.

Elby the Beserk said...

Tingey, you moron - Anon is right and I would add that the same has happened in the USA. Cultural Marxism, the long march through the institutions has taken place in both countries. Add to that the fact that we now have the Muslim Brotherhood working in both countries to undermine the West, and doing it with the tacit complicity of both countries, and I am glad I am 61 and not 21.

Some reading for you. Test at 11

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3672/muslim-brotherhood-us-government

http://standpointmag.co.uk/features-july-august-13-time-to-wise-up-to-the-muslim-brotherhood-john-ware

Out on YouTube there are videos of a couple of USSR defectors stating that what Anon says has happened was indeed intentional.

Alternatively, you could just stick your head in the sand.

G. Tingey said...

Anon 2 & Elby
You are quite off your heads.
The Eu is a bureaucracy & it also looks (shock, horror) as if, back in 1973/5 I was wrong & Anthony Wedgwood Benn [ considerably politically well to the "left" of me] was right – the EU is a corporate conglomerates’ wet dream – a corrupt lobbyists “market” several times the size of the USSA.
But it is a capitalist/corporate monster, not a communist one.
Not that it makes much practical difference if you are being ground down by its slow strangulation, does it?

Edward Spalton said...

Greg,

Anthony Wedgewood Benn, I suspect, was probably the reason my father may have voted for the EEC in 1975.

A dyed-in-the wool Tory, he said "I don't like the is Europe business. Something doesn't smell right about it". He paused and then added "But that man Wedgewood Benn's against it, so there must be some good in it!".

Another chap I know, who was a moderate sort of man in the very militantly organised printing industry told me that he had voted for the EEC because the opponents (From Powell to Benn) appeared to be "extremists".

Anon 2 said...

Communists make very good capitalists (however corrupt)! As material evidence - Back in the late 60s/early 70s the biggest shiniest building in Hong Kong was The Communist China Bank.

After all, their bureaucrats have to do something with all that communal money they collect off the backs of all those labouring communally under equalised stress and strain.

And then, we have to bear in mind the Communist Dialectic: which describes the repeating cycle by which a small, corrupt, authoritarian, governing class is inevitably overthrown by those they oppress --- whose leaders then become a small, corrupt, &c.... Apparently Commies are not yet exempt from it themselves.

corncrake said...

Raedwald you might like to have alook here -

http://preview.tinyurl.com/lcxw6bm

G. Tingey said...

Edward Spalton
Me too!
I mean, at that time, the only people openly "agin" the EEC (as it was then were the National Front, the Communists [ shades of 1939 ] & a few people like Benn.
It seemed a no-brainer.
Of course, times & circumstances have changed, haven't they?

Anon 2
You have a point, especially when you consider that classic communisim is a religion, & a theocracy is almost certainly the utter worst form of guvmint imaginable ....

Sceptical Steve said...

GT etc,.
At the time of the accession and subsequent referendum, we all took certain aspects of British life for granted, particularly democracy and standards in public life, and were encouraged to believe that the "centre-ground" was indeed the right place to be.

However, from their very different vantage points, Enoch Powell and Tony Benn both tried to explain that the apparent short-term benefits of access to the "Common Market" were more than outweighed by the dangers to our democracy.

If we assume that that EU has delivered a genuine Lowest Common Denominator in all the areas in which it's operated we won't be far wrong, i.e. it's delivered the lowest levels of democratic accountability, lowest of levels of public standards etc., all to create an illusion of perpetual, benevolent economic growth.

Sadly, history has repeatedly shown us that this model is untenable in the medium to long term. It is only able to survive because our leaders' ability to bribe us with borrowed money that will have to be repaid by our children and grandchildren. The longer this situation is allowed to continue, the more painful will be the ultimate "correction".

Anonymous said...

I suggest that you would be better off contemptuous of the man David Irving, but keep an open mind as to his academic credentials, weak though they may seem.

Anonymous said...

Also consider what would have happened without the RAF/USAAF bombing campaign. Some 15,000 88's with gun crews available for antitank duty complete with crews could have negated the tank advantage of the USSR, stalled the Italian campaign and possibly pushed the D Day landings into the sea - especially if the Luftwaffe was not confined largely to Germany and could have attacked the landings more effectively. The 55k Bomber Command fatalities could have been matched in a day or two in Normandy if the Allies did not have 99% control of the air. The war in Europe would have certainly gone on past May, and probably past August, and would have been a bloodbath from which the Allies only response would have been a nuclear firestorm. Peter Hitchens, and people like him who moan about Bomber Command and Dresden are all morons. But the Russians would have been a long way away from the German border when their cities dissolved finally, although to destroy 60 or so cities in both Japan and Germany with nukes would have taken another 3 or 4 years, in which time who knows what they would have got up to ...

Alternative history is fun, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Communism/Capitalism.
One is sweet and sour, the other is sour and sweet.
How much is the UK debt ?
Public and private...some 10 trillion pounds, and counting ?
The world "derivative" millstone is come 1.2 quadrillion dollars, and counting.
Neither communism, nor capitalism, has much to brag about.
Both communism and capitalism have their billionaires.

Anonymous said...

Both communism and capitalism have their billionaires.


No, you're confusing corporatism/statism for capitalism, in the western world: there is no true capitalist state.
Free market capitalism, cannot flourish in the UK because of red tape, rules and onerously flawed regulation, All of which, do not allow for free and open competition, in other words - the market is rigged by massive cartels, the car industry the food industry all love the EU because the EU loves regulation and open borders which feed the monster and keep profits high for the corporates.
That's called Statism, which is interchangeable with Socialism and communism.

G. Tingey said...

Anon
Do grow up
Communism is not socialism, nor vice versa, either.
Capitalism has morphed into corporatism, unfortunately.
The whole model is completely broken, & we need something new, which is neither socialism nor capitalism nor communism nor corporatism.
Now what?
With increasing automation, the race to the bottom for jobs & salaries, huge numbers of the previous "middle classes" being impoverished ...
We need a way out.
A "return to real capitalism" won't work ... so now what?

Edward Spalton said...

Greg,

I am just reading H.G.Wells "The Open Conspiracy" (1935) for the first time. He was, of course, moved by the wish to create a world free of war by establishing a form of world government.
There would be armed forces but only to enforce world peace, when all false loyalties to nations and local human societies had been done away.

There is so much of what he advocates which has come to pass but, of course, in a sour malign way- not the bright future he hoped for at all.
He thought that communism was a bit passe but could be a useful contributing basis on which to build his concept of world citizenship. I am not surprised that it's turning more hellish than heavenly.

He did insist that his "Open Conspiracy" faith was a religion but one of continuance to undreamed of heights via the biological continuity of the human race, reformed after his pattern and improved by eugenics, world environmental controls, global socialisation of the means of production etc.

Most modern clergymen these days are more into promoting this "Wellsianity" than Christianity! - and, of course, many secular, soft left/centre ground types like Tony Blair and David Cameron who do not wear their collars back to front.

I am not into "end times " prophecy but I actually, I think you get a better idea of the likely outcome of these sorts of schemes from the Book of Revelation than anything else!

That might have been the writer's insight into human nature as much as anything else.