Thursday, 17 July 2014

Dutchbat

The people of the Netherlands are more than capable of making sure the right thing is done over the behaviour of the Dutch battalion in Srebrenica in 1995. Their 2002 report on the disgrace has already caused the resignation of one PM, Wim Kok. And I'm going to resist scoring any cheap xenophobic points, for we are by no means immune from their behaviour.

No. What comes to mind is a line from the 1992 film 'A Few Good Men';
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

I don't think the Dutch lads were lacking, it was their field commander and (UNPROFOR)- those who cluck a bit further up the pecking order. I bet the local unit commander along with his men - was spoiling to open up on the murderous Bos/Serb irregulars.


I've wondered long and oft so, on, if it had been British unit - British unit commanders in the field are granted a bit [quite a lot] more autonomy and I wonder if the Serbo-Bosnians would have been quite so gun happy with the British in the town.

G. Tingey said...

Also,(then) a Brit unit-commander would have called up the RAF, for a bit of "support" if necessary.
We also have a tradition to uphold ...
In recent years Battle of Imjin River & the stand made by our few troops, disgracefully abandoned by the traitor Thatcher at Port Stanley come to mind.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

Abandoned by Thatcher??? In what parallel universe did she not send 127 ships with an army down to the south atlantic?

The only traitors I recall from 1982 were the communist scum from Militant, who were quite happy to cede British territory and subjects to the Argy fascist dictatorship.

TrT said...

The Dutch had air support, it was cloudy, so they wouldnt release.

A British unit would have faced the same problem. Deployed light, few in number, without heavy machine guns, heavy mortars, armour, artillery, or sufficient ammunition for a firefight.
Had they made a fight of it, they would have been killed.

G. Tingey said...

Sebastian Weetabix
YOU are the one in a surreal fantasy universe.
The madwoman initiated defence cuts - a treason followed by EVERY PM, irrespective of party, since then.
The Argentine dictatorship wanted a "short victorious war"
They nearly got it, too!
We now know that the madwoman had to have her spine stiffened by the Royal Navy & some other politicians, who realised that we could not afford to let it pass.

The ghastly creature took all the credit, afterwards - "They died to save her face"

Now GROW UP & GET REAL

Compare & contrast with her predecessor (ex-RN, of course) who sent attack subs to the S Atlantic FIRST - & then told the Argie dictators: "Come on then, if you're hard enough"
They declined the invitation.

Autonomous Mind said...

Surreal fantasy universe? Spine had to be stiffened?

Thatcher was being advised the Argentines would do nothing and the FCO failed Carrington. The military focus was on the Warsaw Pact and a European war. If the military had been bothered about the Falklands as you suggest, they would have put more than a few dozen Royal Marines on the islands.

Before and since Thatcher there have been many politicians advocating handing the islands to Buenos Aries with no good reason. Yet you defame possibly the only leader who had the guts to right a wrong and go all the way to commit forces and retake the islands.

You really are a prat of the first order.

G. Tingey said...

I STRONGLY SUGGEST
that, now the 30-year records are open, that you look up what actually happened - & that she had to be convinced by the Senior officers of Her Majesty's Navy - to "grow a pair".
Once that was over, of coruse, she took all the credit.
Shameful.

But still not as shameful as her going through with the defence cuts afterwards, nor all the other PM's doing the same since.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

Tingey, you really are vile. There is no lie to which you will not stoop in your blind bigoted hatred of Thatcher, the finest prime minister of the last 70 years.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

I forgot to mention: the cuts were and are both necessary and inevitable. Why? Because you socialist cunts spent all the money and ruined the country.

Anonymous said...

Sebastian Weetabix - you're spot on

Greg Tingey - Fuck off back to your shithole @ Comment Macht Frei

Anonymous said...

Hey lets keep it civilized, I don't agree with GT's stuff most of the time but this is a free speech zone.

All airs are viewed here.

G. Tingey said...

Weetabix
I remember Churchill speaking - at his last public engagement.
As someone who still regards himself as a true left-wing one-nation Tory (Think Macmillan) I despise your crawling lies.

I am in no way a "socialist - I might believe in social justice, but so do the responsible aristocracy - it's called: Noblesse Oblige".
Rather than treating everyone as disposable, wasteable units.

As someone who has two (father-&-son) Lord Chancellors in his ancestry & is as proud of them as the others who were religious refugees & came here in 1685, in the clothes they stood up in, I Strongly suggest that you go & enjoy sex & travel forthwith!

Sebastian Weetabix said...

Not a socialist, but a one nation Tory! Hilarious.

Distinguished by their commitment to nationalisation, price/income policies, et cetera, et cetera. Same policies as Labour, just a different name. Oh, except for racism ("if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote labour"). You must be so proud of being a one-nation Tory.

As for "noblesse oblige" - Jesus Christ, give me strength. You're an even more colossal fool than I gave you credit for.

G. Tingey said...

Weetabiix
FUCKING GROW UP

I was born in 1946 - lets' look at our "leaders" since then shall we?
Attlee I don't remember, but he left one legacy that, 39 years ago saved my life & just this week, my wife's - the NHS.
Churchill - the greatest PM since Wm Pitt the younger, whom, as I say, I DO remember - his powers were failing, but what a human being!
[ Oh & a one-nation tory, incidentally, oops.
Look "Class" it totally irrelevant, it's only idiots like you & the Labour party who are continuing to flog this long-dead horse. DROP IT. ]

Eden - the worst PM since Lord North - everything he touched turned to shit.
Macmillan - war hero, gentleman, sharp brain, only made two mistakes - Profumo & the corrupt Marples.
A Douglas-Hume - always greatly underrated in my opinion.
H Wilson - euw - reminds me (now) of Alex Salmond - totally untrustworthy.
Roy Jenkins (You what?) The best PM we never had - if he had beaten Wilsundra for the Labout leadership, back in '62/3 things would have been very different.
Jim Callaghan - another under-rated man - who did do the right thing over the Falklands, unlike his successor ...
The Madwoman.
She only did one thing right - she actually gave Trades unions legitimate power, by demanding secret ballots, to the same standard as MP's.
[ Something the fuckwit Camoron is now trying to undo, the idiot ]
Major - what a prat. Some of his "advisers" were distinctly unsavoury, though some, such as the insane Sherman, were inherited from 'er indoors.
Blair. Euw, well - we were all deceived, weren't we?
I should have realised, as soon as it became obvious that he was & is a good christian....
Broon - like the madwoman, did one good thing - kept us out of the Euro, in this case.
The present incumbent.
Of the above, the first two, plus Macmillan, & Callaghan were true patriots.
Eden was mad (Suez) & the rest are all traitors.

P.S. I noted, (even) the BBC are starting to ask - "Isn't it about time our defences were re-strengthened?"
In the "Today" programme this morning.
Which means we are at about 1932/33 in the present cycle.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

Amazingly I find I agree with much of your assessment above, with the exception of Churchill - probably due to my Glasgow background. We have never forgiven the warmongering old drunk for ordering the Police to shoot strikers in our neck of the woods when he was home secretary. Happily the chief constable refused and faced him down.

My father was on HMS Renown in the war. They ferried Churchill across the Atlantic to see Roosevelt. After dinner in the wardroom and a few drinks he demanded to see the forward 15" guns fired; since they were travelling at nearly 30 knots and zig-zagging to avoid u-boats the Captain demurred. So the Prime Minister gave him a direct order to fire the guns. Since he was also minister of defence the only possible reply was "Very well, sir". The guns were fired, with predictable results - a 32,000 ton warship stopped dead in the water due to the recoil and every frangible item on the ship was destroyed. Churchill didn't enjoy eating off paper plates for the rest of the journey. The man was a bloody menace, as any reading of Alanbrooke's diaries shows, which is partly why he was booted out in 1945 by the grateful electorate.

But I digress. Our basic problem is we don't pay our way and haven't done since about 1913. The socialist answer is to print money. The tory answer is to preserve class privilege and manage decline. What we need is sound money, a decent education system, and a benefits system that doesn't keep people down - none of which is on offer from any of the present shower.

And you're wrong about class. Politics is about interests and, to quote Lenin, "who, whom". It's all about class. And right now the money interest in the city is fucking us all.

TrT said...

"The guns were fired, with predictable results - a 32,000 ton warship stopped dead in the water due to the recoil"
Bullshit

6x800kg shells
4.8t, call it 5
27,200t warship

I cant remember how momentum is conserved, so we'll pretend energy is.
If the ship was stopped, the shells would be moving at 163,000 miles per hour, ten times shuttle re-entry speed

Sebastian Weetabix said...

Jesus, a dweeb who can't understand a rhetorical device called 'hyperbole'.

A couple of sums regarding the 15" gun. Weight of shell = 879kg.
6x879=5,274
Muzzle velocity = 749m/s, or approx. 1,676mph.

In other words, more than enough energy to cause a check in momentum sufficient to send everything flying. Which is why, as any old sailor will tell you, the crew hated it when they fired the guns needlessly.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to disturb; there were British service personel on site those days in Srebrenica (2 or 3 SAS). They worked together with Dutch commandos to get 1 bomb dropped on Serb positions. It happened to be from a Dutch F-16; it remains unclear why the RAF didn't show up. SAS had direct access to close airsupport before at Srebrenica.