Wednesday, 15 July 2015

We all know the EU are lying about Greece

The IMF is quietly leaking a report that EU leaders are pretending doesn't exist. They have to pretend it doesn't exist; to admit its conclusions would give the lie to all the drama of the last weekend and mean the €86bn about to go to Greece is already lost money. 

The EU is like a Wonga salesman persuading some poor single mum that £48 a week benefits is perfectly adequate to repay a £15,000 Wonga loan if only she economises a bit in the kitchen. The reality is that such a Wonga loan, and Greece's debts, are both unpayable. And whilst one has equal amounts of sympathy for Wonga shareholders and German taxpayers in the event of a default, one also has to ask why they lent such absurd sums in the first place. 

The truth is that all this weekend's settlement has achieved is to defer yet again having to deal with Greece's unpayable debt. The IMF knows this, the Russians know this, the US knows this and we know this. Herr Juncker and his chums also know this, but right now it suits them to stick their fingers in their ears and sing 'La la la ..' in the corridors of Brussels.

There is a certain joy in watching the conversion of the British left to the EUphobic cause; as Owen Jones writes in the Guardian this morning;

"Everything good about the EU is in retreat; everything bad is on the rampage,” writes George Monbiot, explaining his about-turn. “All my life I’ve been pro-Europe,” says Caitlin Moran, “but seeing how Germany is treating Greece, I am finding it increasingly distasteful.” Nick Cohen believes the EU is being portrayed “with some truth, as a cruel, fanatical and stupid institution”. “How can the left support what is being done?” asks Suzanne Moore. “The European ‘Union’. Not in my name.” There are senior Labour figures in Westminster and Holyrood privately moving to an “out” position too.


Anonymous said...

Whooda thought it? It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good. If the Left line up with the rest of us EUphobes, then Cameron will have no choice and no retreat from the in / out referendum; and with popular backing from all the political spectrum, we would surely get an out result. Roll on momentum and roll on 2017.

Coney Island

rapscallion said...

For those of us who realised (in my case since the Euro began) that is could never ever work without political union have been proven right - and then some. One doesn't need a degree in economics to realise that different countries with completely different economies just won't work together in the same currency - something has to give. Greece hasn't helped herself you understand but her books were cooked, and an awful lot of money was thrown at her. Olympics and a new Athens airport just for starters. Like your wonga allegory, she could never pay it back, and she never will. The EU apparatchiks now that if Greece leaves the EZ and then the EU the game is up, which is why the can is being kicked further down the road.

For the British seeing "poor little Greece" being kicked by the Jerries appeals to our sense of backing the underdog and with the overtones of WWII what better bogeyman than the Germans? For the British Left (an oxymoron surely Radders), seeing this sort of display of awesome power by the EU is instructive. Perhaps, just perhaps they are seeing what we could all see a very long time ago - that the EU is not so much undemocratic as anti-democratic, and that there is only one way - the EU way, or you will be punished.

Times, they are a changing

DeeDee99 said...

The sight of all these left-wing hacks suddenly discovering that the EU is a bullying, anti-democratic monster just demonstrates that they don't have an independent thought amongst them.

They've indulged in the pro-EU group-think for two decades .... howling down and insulting anyone who dared to point out the obvious.

And now, when it comes to the EU/Germany imposing austerity on Greece and demonstrating all to clearly its true nature, they are surprised and disappointed.

Farage is being vindicated, as anyone with an independent mind, knew he would be.

So when are these arrogant left-wing hacks going to apologise? Never, is my guess. They're not big enough.

Cuffleyburgers said...

"And whilst one has equal amounts of sympathy for Wonga shareholders and German taxpayers " - not quite; the Wonga shareholders voluntarily bought shares in a company they knew operated in a certain way, and by doing so explicitly condone those activties.

For the average German voter, lied to for decades, denied a real say in abandoning the DM and in any case only doing so on the promise of the (totally bollocks) "stability and growth agreement" he now finds himself owed hundreds if not thousands of euros with the promise of losing more on top, and there is nothing he can do (as an individual) to avoid it, except evade taxes, anywhere and anyway he can

Mr Ecks said...

Wonga would not survive the week following the "business" practices of the EU.

Weekend Yachtsman said...

@rapscallion: "Those of us who realised..that it could never ever work without political union have been proven right - and then some."

Indeed you have.

But you may conclude - as many seem to have done - that this means it will not work.


It will work, because political union will now follow in short order.

The next treaty is only a couple of years off; "ever-closer union", remember?

This is just another beneficial crisis.

Brightside Bob said...

For all of you predicting the imminent demise of the EU (yet again...?), I believe that Weekend Yachtsman has nailed it 100%

Anonymous said...

"It will work, because political union will now follow in short order."

Indeed, the drovers and shepherdesses of the Empire of Brussels would dog whistle the sheeple into the pen of full political union and under German hegemony and yesterday would not be soon enough for the colleagues.

But until, full economic union is achieved ie fiscal and monetary policies are dovetailed across the long will that take?

Plus and not least a 'little persuasion' in the Fatherland, I can't see Heinz, Hansel and bloody Gretel, Dagmar and Otto going for that, many western Germans are still not very happy about the heavy lifting, still ongoing to bail out the East and forge the East into Germany united.
The Germans are only just waking up to the probability of the awfulness, the foetid, corrupt horror of the ECB running the transfer funding/buying up debts of Southern and peripheral Europe.

Evidently, its been bad enough for the west Germans to have to prop up and support France for 50 years. Or, if you look from the other side of the table, how are the remainder of Europe going to like being dominated, told what to do by the Fatherland - we know how that worked out before - it didn't wash.

From Adenauer, to the megalomania of fat bent bastard Helmut Kohl, through all the old Nazis turned neu Eurocrats; Fischer, Schultz and communist turned Reichskanzler Mutti - you can trust them as far as you can chuck them. Muse awhile and how many of the latter named were fomenting trouble in the East attempting to engineer the insane notion, of annexing the Ukraine into the Brussels Empire - the dead federal lunatics and those still breathing, all dangerous [German] fuckwits: the lot of them.

A federal union is all they ever wanted - it's no bloody secret.

The tensions and cracks are beginning to become too much and the building is subsiding built of no foundations and with the piss poor engineering and poor materials used in the construction or should I say bodge 'jerry built' EuroZone mean collapse is only just around the corner. So let them go for full political union, putting another storey on this crumbling edifice will cause violent and major destruction.

Any British institution, lets say it; all of our quisling civil service and more particularly the quangocracy, FCO, DECC, DfiD, Defra, HO... or, any pro EU politician, businessman, the coroporate monster, W-bankers and that moron Dave.
All of those, who believes that Britains' future is made more secure and predicts assured economic prosperity and happily ever afters - by Britain remaining as members of this nuthouse, sometimes named EU-Empire of Doom - surely needs urgently to seek medical help from a head doctor. We need to build more mental hospitals - or kick em all out and over to their perceived Utopia, over the Channel.

And then there's the imminent takeover by the Islamic dervishersa nd 'moderates' to factor in............ mass immigration and the Frankfurt school devotion to Islamic state.

Who needs all of that? Certainly not white Britons.

Anonymous said...

Agreed Weekend Yachtsman...

I was hoping that Tsipras would do a "yeltsin" and steam into Athens on the barrel of a tank cannon... waving a Greek flag....

It was somewhat of a forlorn hope, and the Greek people are going to have to suffer some more before they are allowed to go free.

As for the rest of us...

Not in my lifetime...


rapscallion said...

@Weekend Yachtsman

I an not unfamiliar with the "beneficial crisis"! Nor for that matter the proposed "Associate Membership" option being mooted with this much spoken about treaty. It gives us membership without power - much the same as we have now really!

I think what the EU has done has turned the stomachs of a lot its supporters (mainly on the Left), it has to be said.

Oddly enough I think it will the ordinary German themselves that will finally revolt. We all know their abhorrence of fiscal laxity, of debt (curiously debt and guilt are the same word in German - schuld). The know what dire economic circumstances beget - and they don't want to go through THAT again!

What we can agree on perhaps is that it won't end well.

John miller said...

Call me a cynic but this was as much a surprise to Merkel as Christmas coming on 25 December.

It's merely a manoeuvre to convince the German voters that she has no choice but to accept a fact she's been denying for months. I have no doubt that the IMF is deep in with the EU to keep the Euro going.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

Beneficial crisis ?

Well.... sortof

I can't help thinking that there's more to this - that the emperor is a bit naked - sure - but he's now wobbling around on ineptitude stilts that have just had elevator heels retrofitted courtesy of the IMF.....

Anonymous said...

I remember years ago the Germans offered to buy one of the Belearic islands from Spain - this was a time when Jerry was still deeply unpopular with most Europeans and wanted a holiday island for themselves. Perhaps they'll succeed this time. Kefallonia could fetch two, maybe three 3 billion.


Cascadian said...

Drainaaaaage Eli

The left are realising, far too late as usual that the Greek socialists have spent all of the OPM (other peoples money), the haircuts that sound so tame are in fact the pension pots of most of the other Euro socialists held by their governments. The Greeks have greedily slurped it up, it is gone, needs to be re-earned. Eli the dim and befuddled left is panicing.

And it is not only the left, the right in the land of windmills and ever-extended loans also seem bemused as to why Germany and IMF would ask that contracts and agreements need to be honoured by BOTH parties.

Cascadian said...

Nobody listened

Cuffleyburgers said...

Cascadian continues to bang the drum that the Krauts are the good guys and the Greeks/Italians/etc are bad.

He might do well to remember some History ie Greece was inventing the building blocks of modern civilization while the krauts were running around in woad, and what the Greeks invented the Italians built upon.

Krauts have invented nothing except heavy opera and total war.

The problems in euroland are caused as much by kraut incompetence at managing the ECB (based in Frankfurt), (itself scene of an early German defeat by the Romans I seem to remeber from my history books) as they are by Greek laziness and corruption (see AEP, zerohedge et al ad infinitum).

Don't get me wrong - I like Germans as individuals but the idea that a continent run by Germany will be a fun or a civilised place to live has just been disproved yet again (is that the third or the 4th time - depends when you start I suppose)

Cascadian said...

A contract or agreement has two parties cuffley. Both sides should honour their part of the deal. If you subscribe to the great socialist propoganda currently extant in Euroland (the magical kingdom of windmills for power supply) that Germany is in some way being unjust, that tells me all I need to about you.

I bang no drum, except for sanity in economic affairs, deadbeats need to be kicked to the curb occasionally otherwise you end up with people believing Greece is somehow "honourable" along with the other PIIGS. Of course I am speaking to people who believe that the continuing deficits run in England (more than even Gordoom Broon and the hated Ed Balls managed) is somehow a kind of economic turnaround.

And if you think the ECB is run by the Germans then the socialist re-education camp you attended did its work well.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...


take a look at THIS

Not saying ALL Greeks are bad - but crikey...

Wonder if Senior Barrosso is still up to his neck in all this......

Anonymous said...

Cuffeyburgers has it just right...

"Krauts have invented nothing except heavy opera and total war."

All that needs to be added is their genetically imbued crisis of confidence... their inferiority complex...

Since the days of Attila, through the Saxon invasion of western Yerp and up to the latest attempted take over, via the communitarian ethos, they have only ever wanted one thing...

Control over those that actually are superior, those that understand what life is really about...

And it ain't control...

It is freedom and independence of thought and action... for that is how real human progress is made.

We must be allowed to make mistakes and to repeatedly fail.

Budgie said...

Trying to pin the blame on "the Greeks" or the "the Germans" badly misses the point. Economists have said for decades that a monetary union cannot work without a political union. That truth is unfolding before our eyes.

So will the Brussels elites scrap the euro? You've got to be joking. So it's political union here we come.

Cascadian said...

Budgie , even if political union was imposed you need countries to abide by contracts and state there financial position correctly before taking out loans from others.
Iceland was honest and defaulted, they seem to have survived much better than Ireland, Spain , Portugal, Cyprus and Greece. (And soon France and Italy).
England including hookers and drug deals estimated income as part of GDP is following a similar path as Greece.
Even political union cannot survive that level of insanity.

Sebastian Weetabix said...

The Krauts basically invented modern chemistry, rocketry and discovered quite a bit of physics, but let's not allow some facts to get in the way of a bit of bigotry, eh?