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Thursday, 3 December 2015

Commons debate: The best and worst

Well, I think the House earned its oats yesterday. Despite the depredations of Brussels, the pusillanimity of successive governments and the venality of MPs there are still moments at which the magic of the Commons raises a group of narcissistic sycophants to a wise and informed forum for national debate. Over the years I've heard it more than a dozen times - at first broadcast live by the BBC radio, more recently by Parliament's own TV feed. And yesterday they did it again. 

The worst speech I heard was Cameron's. A dire, dismal 'I really can't be arsed' dismissal of democracy by an arrogant Eton boy not seeking another term and now not hiding his true colours. Corbyn almost equally dire.

Of the best, John Baron and Julian Lewis speaking against the motion. David Davies magnificent. Alex Salmond displaying a rarely seen depth of understanding. Andrew Tyrie. And of course Hilary Benn. 

It was a lesson to ISIS that the strength of western democracy lies in just this - informed and lengthy debate, not the crazed diktat of some bigoted zealot with a book. And it was also a lesson to the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels as to what a democracy looks like. 

Benn said
And we are here faced by fascists. Not just their calculated brutality, but their belief that they are superior to every single one of us in this chamber tonight, and all of the people that we represent. They hold us in contempt. They hold our values in contempt. They hold our belief in tolerance and decency in contempt. They hold our democracy, the means by which we will make our decision tonight, in contempt. And what we know about fascists is that they need to be defeated.
Amen to that. 


Weekend Yachtsman said...

What Benn said looks completely right.

The problem is, sending a very small number of aircraft to drop a few extremely expensive munitions on vaguely-defined targets will not defeat the fascists.

It's a gesture, no more.

Anonymous said...

And what about the Fascists in Benn's own party and of which - he is one?

"Socialist brothers", "our French Allies" [when, how what, where?]

I'll take no haughty 'defending democracy' lecture from that arsehole hypocrite and fucking venal rat, a feckless fraud, Hilary Benn who exhibits the very worst of that house of sanctimony and privilege.

Sorry Radders, we are at variance, there is no democracy in Britain the HoC is a sham talking shoppe full of feather preening twats, admittedly not all of 'em but the vast majority.

Dave's war is getting going and he can now sit back watch the firestorm and fiddle and fiddle-de-fucking-dee at that.

Camoron, he has stamped his feet, then lied through his teeth and in doing so, brought us "we the people" all into a war.

Yet the perfidy is doubled - nay quintipled, by sleeping on his watch - Cameron has allowed the country to be overrun in ever increasing numbers of people who are inimical to all we hold dear here in Christendom.
Next, Camoron the worm-tongued twat he permits, encourages the lawmakers, social services, authorities and other social services branch in Blue to lay down and die for the RoPers.

While in the same moment Camoron is sucking up to Erdogan and eating dainties with the Wahhabist nutters in Riyadh.

A curse on Cameron, for he has cursed us, they are among us now and they will cause us much pain.

G. Tingey said...


Benn was entirely correct.But, it's a pity that he didn't state the OTHER part of the equation.

This is not the run-up to WWII, with Syria playing the part of Spain, this time round.
It is unfinished business from WWII.
Look up "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem" & the thread of evil connecting Da'esh back to the NSDAP.

Anonymous said...

Can we give Hillary Benn a rifle and send him over there, since he's so keen?

Bloke in North Dorset said...

It would have been better if Benn had used the term authoritarians instead of fascists to just make it clear we're against the left as well as the right.

And yes I'm aware that most on the extreme left are really fascists but that's no longer common usage.

Anonymous said...

"Can we give Hillary Benn a rifle and send him over there, since he's so keen?"

Dave his lance jack.

Paraphrasing the Iron Duke Lord Wellesley:

I don't know what effect they will have on the French, but by God they frighten me."


Tingey - "FUCK OFF" - oooh I say and up Pompei, I didn't think you cared my dearest thing!

Anonymous said...

The enemy is Islam but our 'leaders' have submitted to it already at home.

Chucking a few expensive munitions at stolen Toyotas will make no difference, indeed it will just encourage ISIS to take the fight into Europe, aided and abetted by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Merkel, Benn et al.

Prawn Sandwich said...

One's which got my attention
Tom Tugenhat(sic)
Sara Wollaston
Pat McFadden
Jim Dowd

Would like to take Salmond behind the shed for a little re-education

Mr Ecks said...

Tingy--No you fuck off.

Anon is right.

The Pig-Fucker gets his little war, we send our 3 biplanes while the dross of the HoC talk their democrashite.

Esp annoying Benn's "fascist" shite. Fascism IS socialism you cunt. It was invented and named by leftist scum and was hailed in the early 1920s as the "future of socialism" by the Fabians and shitloads of other socialist vermin. And indeed it has been peddling socialist antics but under colour of supposed support for "free markets" since WW2. Corporate socialism is a much better name for it than "fascism" a word corrupted by 70 years of leftist liars trying to claim it has nothing to do with them.

So now we bomb ISIS while Pig-Fuck sucks the dicks of the Saudis and the Turks--both states being scum. And all the Holy Joe sanctimonious horseshit from the MPukes adds up to nothing. The public school prick gets his way.

And when the Jihadi-scum he is letting back into the UK--plus the ones who never left--kick off then Pig-Fuck will be able to push for a full-on police state. To protect us against the islamics we never wanted or asked to be here in the first place.

Anonymous said...

Until we deal with the 5th Column within it is just tinkering at the edges with an ocean going dollop of wishful thinking. As I stated a couple of days ago, going to war is a big deal, and if required, will be obvious to just about everyone.

Anonymous said...

Mr Ecks and Anon 10:01 - Correct. Mr Tingey - Bollocks as always.

Unless we deal with Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey - this is all pointless. We could obliterate Al Queda mk 2 (ISIS) and Al Queda Mk 3 will come along...

Budgie said...

Anon 09:00 said: "Can we give Hillary Benn a rifle and send him over there, since he's so keen?"

So in your scenario politicians could only make valid judgements about war if they were also military men. That would mean we were governed by the armed forces. No thanks, I much prefer them to be separate.

Budgie said...

Mr Ecks said: [Cameron] gets his little war, we send our 3 biplanes ...". And others on both sides....

The HoC vote was not authorising the start of a war against ISIS because we were already at war with them in Iraq. ISIS straddles Iraq and Syria, so it makes no sense to stop at the border. Therefore this is an extension to an existing policy.

However we should be far more robust about excising ISIS, or any other terrorists, in our midst by a whole range of policies from refusing to let British born murderers back in, to dismantling multi-culturism.

Raedwald said...

Budgie - agree

(1) We're only at marginally higher risk of terrorist death than yesterday - say it's gone from 85% to 90%

(2) We're the blood enemy of ISIS whether we bomb or not, whether we're we're in Iraq or Syria or anywhere.

(3) The PM's 'Daesh' nonsense aimed as removing any reference to Islam from our enemiy's identity is nonsense. I will always refer to them as 'Islamists' or 'Islamist Shits' IS / ISIS / ISIL

(4) Our message must be uncompromising - OUR way is superior, OUR society is better, OUR democracy is without parallel, in comparison to your primitive little book and it's mediaeval superstitions. We must stop pretending the Koran has any merit beyond a window into the 8th century, and be clear to all Muslims living in the UK that they are wrong and deluded if they think Islamism trumps our Western ways.

Anonymous said...

"However we should be far more robust about excising ISIS, or any other terrorists, in our midst by a whole range of policies from refusing to let British born murderers back in, to dismantling multi-culturism."

A real clamp down on money-laundering in the City would help to cut off ISIS funds.

Don Cox

Anonymous said...

Muhammadans are certainly conservative and reactionary - witness how two of them reacted in San Bernardino yesterday - but I wouldn't say IS were fascist. Benn's use of the word mirrors his politics: fighting fascism is half of everything socialism does so he had to include it. Merely mention the word and liberal progressives start dribbling at the mouth.

This IS phenomenon pre-dates politics as we know it; goes way, way back in time to the days when life was so cheap you could buy a dozen slaves for a goat. That's the mindset we're dealing with: appealing directly to the primitivism parked up somewhere in the human brain. Mo was a clever man, he offered his followers the equivalent of sex, drugs and Rock 'n' Roll. The Koran is a look forward tome.

At the end of the day if you want people to die horribly for whatever reason you've got to offer them something that they can collect on in the afterlife. Call it a 'heavenly profit motive'. Fascism doesn't offer that.


Anonymous said...

"A real clamp down on money-laundering in the City would help to cut off ISIS funds."

Is HSBC still the main conduit for laundering the $billions from Mexican drug Cartels - most definitely.

There is so much we could do, but won't. Is it political correctness which precludes the UK acting in the interests of security and defence of the homeland or, is it that the City boys run the country....or the HMG - does really not give two fucks.

I tend to the latter.

G. Tingey said...

Those on the left are not fascists, ever.
They may, particularly if communists be authoritarian murderers, like the fascists, but their "rationale" is entirely different. In the case of communists, it's religious, of course. Whatever they calim, they are not atheists, any more than the NSDAP were actually "socialist" or E Germany was or N Korea is "democratic"
Just because the word is in the name, doesn't mean that it is true, OK?

USE A NAME - even a nom-de-plume & I MIGHT be more polite.
See my comments above on "fascists", real & imagined.

1) Tick
2) Tick
3) Can we use "Da'esh" - apparently, they don't like the name.... (?)
4)Agree with one small correction.
To refer to islamism as "Medieval" actually compliments it.
In truth, it's a collection of DARK AGES camelherders' myths & murderous rubbish with it.
This needs to be said out loud & frequently.

Other Anon (Steve)
So true - see my remarks about the islamic religion, above.

Mike Spilligan said...

Sorry I'm late; but I don't understand Radders comment "....a lesson to the unelected bureaucrats of Brussels". Do you, Radders, really think that they are in the least bit interested in our parliamentary procedures? It's not even a side-show to them - no more than a lot of noise at a parish council meeting discussing a drainage ditch.

Budgie said...

"When I use a word,' G Tingey said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'" On the contrary, just because there are some differences between National Socialists and International Socialists, doesn't mean they are not both socialist.

Moreover, there was no practical difference between the way that the CPSU ran the USSR, and the NSDAP ran Germany. Both were extreme authoritarian political constructs that put the state before the individual and acknowledged no God (or Gods) above the state.

Both were probably a substitute for religion, enabling those willfully incapable of belief in God to derive some form of ersatz meaning in their miserable lives.

Anonymous said...

Mike Spilligan said @ 18:33

'It's not even a side-show to them - no more than a lot of noise at a parish council meeting discussing a drainage ditch.'

True. You only have to look at the post-democratic seating arrangement in the European Parliament to know it's not a debating chamber. In our Parliament we face our detractors.


Anonymous said...

I recall the HoC farce, when MacMental deliberated over the "line by line scrutiny", of the Lisbon constitution/treaty. Where were our brave boys and girls then? - nowhere to be fucking seen that's where.
The Lisbon perfidy, It was duly passed by those fuckers who had not even read the abstract - let alone the full text and if they had - would it have made the slightest iota of difference to these self appointed defenders of democracy? Aye....knowing, signing up to a transfer of powers which renders Parliament even more redundant - if you can believe it were possible. And yet NOW, they exhort us to go off to war for and to defend democracy - FFS is it any wonder we are ever so slightly wary of what these tossers utter, is anything they say - even remotely resemble the truth?

We witness our brave allies in France are 'our fellow shining knights and defenders of democracy' shifting the goal posts and moving heaven and earth to halt the advance of Marine Le Pen - that's democracy at work in dear old beloved EU - France style..............These fuckers will do anything and everything in their power to preserve 'le grand projet' - even to the extent of using some Parisians, as collateral damage. There is nothing they won't stoop to.
Hollande's government was going down the toilet, he was going to be metaphorically murdered by Le Pen at the polls but a war on international terrorists, bombing the shi-ites out of Isil and a shut down of the nation till evermore and bobs yer uncle - the left and right will get together to stop Le Pen - fucking happy days yeah?

And in the UK?

This charade last night, was for purely domestic consumption, a dainty to tickle the palettes of those who perceive and who want to advertise said talking Shoppe of old Parliament as, some sort of relevant legislature - they [the colleagues and their media hounds] - do the same with the Strasbourg EP aka gossip tea room.

Happy days? erm as Britain joins in with the colleagues to fight some notional enemy abroad while the real wolves live among the sheep back in dear old Blighty, ffs we've been done up, WMD? Nah just Jihadi loonies 0 just like Bliar did in 2003.

I see some good to come out of it, the Marxist goons will go after those lav scum who voted for war and deselection is the order of the day with much bad blood to go - bring it on - these arrogant "consensus politicians" want to be cast out.

We need Conservative associations to do the same with Dave's soshul dhimmis - the Tory boys own version of Common Purpose "consensus politicians" - they need to be booted into the stratosphere with the rest of the rump of the consensus political claque.

What we need, is politicians to represent us and the needs primarily and exclusive to all else and certainly not beholden to the like of that kleptocracy and the Kommissars/Mafia of Brussels the EU. Next, the international elite with its adherence to all things France, Merkel, the green agenda, mass immigration, Islamification of Europe and its consequent demographic and economic time bomb - whose explosivity index will be greater than were, Hekla, Santorini, Vesuvius and Katla and Krakatoa put together.

Deselect the bastards and start to grab back democracy.

Anonymous said...

Pity that Tommy Robinson, in his attempt to kick-start 'Pegida' in the UK, has chosen an articulate idiot as the front man.


Anonymous said...

..'inarticulate' idiot...


Anonymous said...

When one views the "extraordinary" result last night in the Oldham by-election where even 'The lord of shite at Unite' McCluskey couldn't veil his surprised glee, how can we overtly assume that, here in the UK we live in a free and open democracy?

FFS! 11,000 postal votes "suddenly arrived" what happy circumstance was that? ....Aye but ever so carelessly: they lost ballot boxes in Margate - strange huh?

I ask, can someone collect these ghost votes of Oldham and check them, scrutinize them carefully or..... will they be ever so handily be quickly destroyed - and just like Bliar's expenses claims - chopped and chomped - how fucking convenient was that?

Democracy has been long dead in Britain - our political system its operation and the shenanigans of bloc postal voting mean - our democracy is no more sound than those of; North Korea, the PRC and the DRC, CAR, Sudan, Zimbabwe and any other shite hole which comes to mind not least in France.

Shameful, no: it's fucking criminal.

G. Tingey said...

No, I was not using Humpty Dumpty meanings.
There were, once some real, actual "socialist" leanings within the NSDAP, but they were brutally eradicated when Röhm was murdered - & if you knew any 20thC European history, you would know that, too, OK?
You also, in your foaming missed the bit where I characterised both lots as brutal authoritarians - really, I'm beginning to wonder about your comprehension abilities...

Whichever anon was posting @ 09.11...
Yes, well, postal ballot fraud, remarkably similar to Tower Hamlets does seem to spring to mind, doesn't it?

Budgie said...

G Tingey, And if you bothered to read Hayek you would find out that socialism, whatever brand, always arrives at the same ugly destination. I have heard too many people say "that isn't my kind of socialism" to be impressed by either their initial gullibility or their attempts to perpetually re-define socialism after the truth emerges. You are not the first to be taken in, and you won't be the last. But until people stop making excuses for socialism we will never be free of it.