Cookie Notice

However, this blog is a US service and this site uses cookies from Google to deliver its services and analyze traffic. Your IP address and user-agent are shared with Google along with performance and security metrics to ensure quality of service, generate usage statistics, and to detect and address abuse.

Thursday, 31 March 2016

EU Referendum: Forget the Facts

Simon Jenkins makes a point today that I have known since the referendum was announced; that the facts will have nothing to do with the vote. It is utterly pointless to swamp the public with 'facts' and even more pointless to harangue them into listening to credible experts. 

My tactic is the right one; for every announcement made by a 'pro' figure, throw out a counterfactual. If they say the EU is good for the environment, broadcast that the EU will kill the UK's natural environment. If they claim leaving will cost each UK family £3k, put out that each UK family will be £3k better off by leaving. If they claim the EU enhances UK security, make the point that the EU actually degrades UK security.

As an individual who is not a member of any campaign, and who has no campaign expenditure, you may lack the MSM attention that a known 'pro' figure gets, but are equal on social media to any of the big cannons. It doesn't take any more than a hundred 'outers' repeating the message that leaving will make everyone £3k a year richer to drown out the Treasury claiming the opposite. 

The true point is that leaving is a lot less risky than being shackled to a dying EU that will drag its members into the inferno before it dies. People know this in their guts; facts won't change minds.


Anonymous said...

There is one fact that is unalterable and unarguable Raedwald...

Tony Benn had it...

With a foreign, unelected power governing us... the question of how we get rid of it rears its head.

Tony Benn's five questions:


If we govern ourselves, we can always get rid of Corbyn or Cameron... Or Johnson.

With Tusk, Merkel or Juncker governing us, there is no way to proceed.

English Pensioner said...

People seem afraid these days, they don't want to make decisions, they want to live in their 'safe spaces', we seem to have lost the will and the ambition of or ancestors who saw no problem in a tiny island ruling much of the world. We need to be part of the bigger picture, afraid to stand on our own for ourselves. The country has lost it's backbone and many of those qualified people who have ambition are getting out.

Dioclese said...

The BBC approach is interesting :

(1) If the leave compaign says something, point out the counter argument
(2) If the remain camcaign says something, just broadcast that

Good to know we have an unbiased national broadcaster isn't it?

mikebravo said...

The people of this once great country have become afraid of their own shadows. They do what the government tells them without question. Smokers stopped smoking, train passengers cower outside the 1st class seating areas when the train is full and would rather stand in groups next to the doors and complain than just sit down.

On top of that we have imported millions who couldn't give a damn about our history and hard won sovereignty.

As long as x factor or corrie is on they are happy.

We will not leave because to do so is too much trouble and might interfere with our daily habits.

Poisonedchalice said...

I can only hope that mikebravo is wrong... :(

Coney Island

Anonymous said...

As a nation..........We are lost and will never find ourselves until, we leave the EU.

Anonymous said...

The remain or leave debate has yet to reach peak contention, however the real problems are elsewhere and not spoken about.

Take the UK. Tension is everywhere, you can feel it and with every year that passes that stress goes deeper into our society. We had a massively cohered society not so long ago; behaviours were so well known a culture of humour developed which really had no equal. One example is we took the piss out of everyone and everything something chronic. In my opinion we were a lot happier back then and the reason is we were closer to ourselves and each other. That's why these days I stick to my own folk socially - to protect the wonderful sense of who I am. Today my identity as an Englishman has never been stronger

However the health of our identities in these Islands has never been poorer. The decades of mass immigration have taken their toll. The EU will further weaken our indentities if we remain inside as uniformity and sameness is at the heart of their dastardly 'project'. If we remain the coming Superstate will concrete over our identities much like the fields of England are being concreted over: to build houses for the supersized population we never asked for. By remembering who you are you will be able to hand on the identity entrusted to you by your ancestors. You were also given this land by no others but them. Fight for it and in doing so you will honour their sacrifice. Because it was their homeland it is your homeland.


raedwald said...

Steve - Amen to that. In particular the destruction of an independent, bloody-minded and very self-sufficient English working class by the Labour Party more than any other. The upper classes have always been internationalist and have never held firm allegiance to the UK and the middle classes (that's me) can always be bought.

anon 2 said...

Hear, hear: Raedwald and Steve.

My parents were of our greatest generation, and I brought my mother's ashes Home to rest beside my father's ... per her wishes. Coming through Customs, as a native, I was naturally suspect, so the idiot female ossifer looked into the urn. Shock! Horror! at the findings and my explanation. One of her commiserators shrugged and said she had to understand: "... those older people loved the place, who knows why."

Apparently many younger ones can see no reason to love it, which is far worse, I think than looking at ashes. Yes, Labour, the Unions, and all other Marxist infiltrators have done their job - and I am unhappy with my generation for letting it happen. Surely we must do all we can to turn that tidal wave. . . . . and perhaps our greatest chance is by showing them why and how we must leave the euSSR.

It's tough, though, with half the world's already acting as if we never existed -- except as some ogre.

Cascadian said...

Considering your previous post-Does the UK need a steel industry? and the question here to ignore the facts.

I would ask what membership of the European Coal and Steel Community has done for the yUK? Except to note that both industries have been comprehensively destroyed even while their output is still in great demand.

the camorons dalliance with wind energy and greenhouse gases is beyond dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Raedwald said @ 16:48:

'Steve - Amen to that. In particular the destruction of an independent, bloody-minded and very self-sufficient English working class by the Labour Party more than any other. The upper classes have always been internationalist and have never held firm allegiance to the UK and the middle classes (that's me) can always be bought.'

As the Express's Leo McKinstry said some years ago: 'the last bastion of English identity is in the massed ranks of the working class' - he also fingered the Labour Party for its part in the destruction of our identity. I'll fight them to the end.

By the way that's the first time you've addressed me personally in the six years I've been commentating on your blog.


Budgie said...

About 60 countries took their independence from the British Empire. All of them were smaller by GDP (at the time of independence) than the UK. The notion put about by the remoaners that somehow the UK can't be independent is preposterous.

anon 2 said...

So right, Raedwald, that the "'upper classes' have always been internationalist" in Engla Lond(my stress). After 1066, of course, those classes sprang from the frogulated Normans, thus subjecting the Celtic majority and the Anglo-Saxons to serfdom and, in the latter case, mass slaughter (AD 1069). Thence the frogules practiced 'divide and rule,' but the indigenes whom they had robbed, and over whom they held sway were not otherwise inferior ... including linguistically. Furthermore, the aliens would eventually need us as soldiers/archers.

The Marxists, of course, brought with them their euro (mis)understandings by treating the divisions as "class" --- more economic than otherwise. However, though the Tudors attempted to redress indigenous divisions somewhat, the reality had long remained racial/tribal. So what do the devils+euSSR do now but play an even more deadly game of 'divide and conquer', if not of genocide.

Yes, I'm with Steve and Budgie: it's essential to "get out", to deny their "preposterous" claims, and to show why we have remained separate from euros since the first Celtic arrivals (what? 6-7000 years ago?) in our isles.

DeeDee99 said...

The British Establishment is fully signed up to the One World Government/New World Order agenda.

They knew that in order to achieve it they would have to break what they call nationalism and we call patriotism. That meant destroying social cohesion.

They knew the necessary policies and laws could only be imposed by bodies which weren't dependent on getting elected/re-elected. So they joined/created the UN and the EU and gave power to unelected Quangos.

And then they set out to scare people so they'd meekly conform to the "nanny state" and wouldn't fight back against the imposition of systems of governance which are little more than dictatorship.

People in general are so apathetic about what has been done to this country. When I'm campaigning on street stalls etc for LEAVE, the only people who seem to have any real fight in them are in the 50+ bracket. When it comes to the EU referendum, most people under 40 seem to be either ignorant or simply don't care what membership of the EU is doing to this country.

How on earth do you counter that?

rapscallion said...

I fear Mike Bravo is right, and not only for the reasons he stipulates. Reading through the many comments I can only surmise that as always, it's a combination of factors which include:
Tribal voting on party lines - both Labour and Tory Parties are pro-EU (though I grant you the memberships of both may not necessarily be so), but they'll vote on party lines anyway
Brainwashing - The marxist march through the institutions has worked. Most people don't care much about anything - least of all the EU. They hardly even know their own history for God's sake.
Apathy - Most just don't care. As long as they have food in their belly, drink and something on the goggle box, they're not going to bother anybody, and most certainly won't make the effort to go and vote.
Age. Most of the population of this country (legal or otherwise) have spent all if not most of their life under EU rule.
Gutlessness - We British as a general rule have lost our collective courage, patriotism and sense of national identity (hardly surprising considering that since 1997 we've had the biggest change in our population since 1066).
Most are content with the status quo and are too scared of change.
I would love to be wrong, but it saddens me to say that come June this country is going to vote to stay in. In time they'll come to regret it when the EU drags us into the fires of hell along with all the other satrapy's of the EU.

With any luck I won't be around to see it.

G. Tingey said...

I'm not so sure ...
apart from Tony Benn's questions, there are one or two actual facts that are important.

1. Our nett contribution to the EU ( i.e after subtracting the money we get back) is ... £32 MILLION A DAY.
What do we get for this "intangible"?
If no satisfactory reply is given ( & it won't be ) then - right, we're off ...
2. Do we want Common Law replaced by Code Napoleon "law"? Answer - NOT AT ANY PRICE.
3. Answer Tim Martin's question as to how & why the EU is antidemocratic, please?
4. Explain how & why the EAW, which is CONTRARY TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS, is a supposedly good idea.

All of the above are facts or factual questions, which have not ( IMHO will not & cannot ) be answered by the "remain" lobby.