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Wednesday, 22 June 2016

Direct Democracy

On this penultimate day I'd like to offer a few reflections and pose a few questions, largely those arising from two events - last night's TV debate, and an unnoticed 10 minute broadcast by Roger Scruton.

I've long admired the work of Roger Scruton, particularly that which I perceived as acting against Totalitarianism and towards the growth of an effective and empowered citizenry. Roger has also long had a view that the purpose of our democratic structures is to homogenise and deradicalise populism; if legislation were enacted immediately on the back of public sentiment, we would have had capital punishment after the murder of Lee Rigby. Roger holds the abilities of MPs and of Parliament in high regard. What I think he's missed is that we no longer trust our MPs, for instance, not themselves to use say the murder of Jo Cox to introduce repressive and Totalitarian measures. MPs are sadly not so well informed or so altruistically disposed as Roger would have them - and we ordinary people not so radical nor so ill-informed that MPs are required to act on our behalf. 

So Roger's 10 minute Sunday broadcast ( ) against petitions is a diatribe (if one can call such gentle disapprobation) against direct democracy and in favour of representative democracy. People are not capable of making wise choices when given simple binary choices; things are more nuanced, more complex and only our informed and deliberative Parliamentary system is capable of dealing with such matters, including the Referendum, says Roger. 

He's wrong, of course. And it pains me to say so. He once valued Burke, and I would direct him back to Burke's little platoons; the smaller the realm of decisions to be taken, the higher the quality of those decisions. The more local the associations, authorities and interests with which we interact, the better the knowledge and the choices. MPs are now a part of a global cabal, a political class that views the world internationally, alongside global corporatism and global finance. They are not therefore well placed to make decisions in the interests of our shires, our towns and metropolii. 

And that was demonstrated last night in the BBC debate with a participative audience of 6,000 ordinary people to whom Roger would deny the vote. They were no less well-informed than the experts on the podia, and far better represented the interests of the British people. 

Leave or Remain, whatever comes out of tomorrow, I'd always, always trust my future to the votes of all enfranchised Britons whatever their station in life than to a political class no longer wholly trusted or wanted by those voters.


Anonymous said...

Have you googled 'the harrogate agenda' ?

Anonymous said...

I don't think that MP's know much at all... but what they do know is that the larger the demos the weaker the kratos, they also know that propaganda is very effective...

So as long as they control the mechanism for calling elections and the method for publicising them, they will always control us.

Godfrey Bloom had some good stuff to say on this sort of thing the other day:


Anonymous said...

Canonization, works very well in Switzerland and it worked pretty well here for more than a few hundred years, though we named them, 'the Shires'.

The trouble is, now with a new effnic factor, towns and cities in England will thrum to an alien beat, which is more about being under the thumb and scourge of a religious police.

It's damn well getting too late in the day.

As one delves into the mind, falling into darker episodes, I believe sometimes that, whatever happens tomorrow - we are lost and the end is not too far away.

I think on, just how easily people are cowed, today's youf - swallow pap and believe it to be, halal. The takeover and subjugation of Mosul by a few hundred nutters, a city of one million+ citizens and it was easily done............ the rest and our future is black, bleak, and please don't think that they do not plan for such eventualities - here.

Happily for you R, you were able to vote with your feet.

Cuffleyburgers said...

A fine example being the gun ban introduced bytraitor major after the dunblane and hungerford tragedies.

Illiberal, and completely unsuited to solving a practically non-existent problem - one man is guilty 50 million pay the price in a loss of liberty. Major is regarded as a hero, when in fact he's a loathsome excresence of a reviled political class.

Elby the Beserk said...

Mr. Lysergic here - Scruton is open to correspondence. ( I can see where he is coming from to an extent, in that a referendum requires an educated electorate. Which we haven't got. But we are all allowed some mistakes, and this is tiny in the context of his work.

Radders - have you read Kenneth Minogue's superb "The Servile Mind. How Democracy Erodes The Moral Life". In the context of what we are discussing, you really should. It's a masterpiece.

Not long to go now. Almost Independence Day

anon 2 said...

Yes. As Anonymous @ 08:45 intimates, the Harrogate Agenda (from Dr. North at eureferendum) points us to this very method of local representation and communication.

Anyway, me I'm a big fan of Robin Hood: that kind of thing can lead to practicable solutions like Magna Carta (and its ensuing revisions). I'd just rather alien powers didn't impose limitations like their Communist Dialectic on the process...

Back to yesterday's prayer, then.

Dave_G said...

"[part of] a political class that views the world internationally"


Part of an establishment blind to the needs and wants of their electorate would be more accurate.

Politicians should KNOW their position and even be willing to be subject to the likes of recall (should that ever be instigated) - their intent or even need to 'view the world internationally' is not their remit nor theirs to claim.

If they acted with the consent and will of the people they are supposed to represent we may well have trusted them with overlordship by a cabal like the EU knowing that our rights were paramount and that they would protect them even though the 'cabal' acted in a global interest.

If we can't trust politicians LOCALLY we have no hope whatsoever of them accepting a global or international responsibility on our behalf.

Trust needs to be re-learned by them. They have lost it and lost it in a way that will take decades to regain.

anon 2 said...

Only "decades", Dave G? More like centuries!

One good thing at the moment, though, is the idea that the Queen is on our side ... supporting her people. The first view I had of it was here:
I've seen reiterations elsewhere.

Vivat Elizabeth! And bring back the Queen's English, too. BREXIT

RandomAnonymousCrank said...

Tarnation my cynical streak is getting deeper and wider all the time, could be that Dodgy Dave has told Liz what the result has been fixed at and she's just trying to ameliorate the pitch forks and burning brands.

anon 2 said...

RAC @ 23:30 ... Of course that possibility exists. However, HM wasn't brainwashed by the present euro-marxist educational system. We may also remember that she saw what the country suffered during WWII, and she served in the ATS during those years. Further, she is not even as free to speak publicly as we presently are; however, the question festured this week was asked of her private guests.

Also, considering her oft noted contempt of Heath, HM must have even less time for Deviously Dotty Dave: son of the Father of Lies. Indeed he almost embodies words E.M. Forster invested in the character Mr. Beebe: "It is so difficult—at least, I find it difficult—to understand people who speak the truth" ("Room with a View"; Chapter I). I say 'almost' because our Beeb's Master Moron obviously is a complete stranger to truth.

No - HM is a different kettle of fish; and she doesn't need to suck up to the gaggle of europols who've illegally grabbed the reins of power while clambering up by their bootstraps. They are the totalitarian autocrats who want her place, not vice versa.

James Higham said...

Well put as ever, Radders. I'm all commented out on it by now. Vote Leave.

DeeDee99 said...

Part of a political class which considers itself superior and has as much of a divine right to govern us as King Charles I and the Ancien Regime in France.

I hope the people summon up the strength of character to reject them.

Weekend Yachtsman said...

Metropolii? Really?


Good post.

Let the dice fall as they will, the struggle will continue: Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað .

anon 2 said...

Soðlice, WY :)

Anonymous said...

The queue was long outside my polling station this morning. A column of native working class English determined to vote before work. Those coming out and those going in just nodded to each other as they passed. No politicians, no lies or obfuscation. The mood was solid. This was direct democracy: a Westminster bypass.

Voted to Leave the European Union.


Rossa said...

As usual I think there will be a noticeable North/South divide in the results. Voted Leave this morning and all around the immediate area, about a 5 mile radius, were Vote Leave banners and posters, plus groups stood near roundabouts on one of the main routes into the Bradford. Lots of cars and truck drivers tooting their horns and people waving at each other. Not one Remain sign anywhere.

If I was being cheeky (tongue in cheek, anyway) I would say that the reports of 'biblical' weather in the South may also shower mainly on those who want to Remain. Some commenters seem to think that Remain voters will stay at home but Leave voters are more determined so would brave the elements.

As an aside, a local librarian is a vote counter tonight. Told Rossa's Mum that when Sadiq Khan was voted in as Mayor all our local 'cultural enrichers' paraded around the town in their cars intimidating the locals. Did not go down well.

Mike Cunningham said...

I have often considered the Silent Ones, who work in the shadows of our State, as being the true masters of our destiny.
As my thoughts go, so does my imagination; and mine own! opinions!

Wildgoose said...

Fantastic News!

We've done it!

Cascadian said...

Camoron must go, absolutely no credibility left. The only one talking sense is Milliband FFS.

Well done, you have taken the first step to reclaiming your country.

TiDavis. U.S.A said...

Happy Brexit to you,
Happy Brexit to you,
Happy Brexiiit, Dear England,
Happy Brexit tooo Yooouuu!

G. Tingey said...

London, N Ireland, Scotland vote "In"
Everybody else votes "Out"

Sinn fein call for referendum on Irish Unity (Oh dear)

Total collapse & abdication of leadership of Labour party who were stupid enough to believe that they didn't need to get into this fight.
German car-manufacturers screaming for total free trade with Britain, even before business opens this morning.
Interesting times

Poisonedchalice said...

What TiDavis said :)

Get out of your pit Radders old chap - we've won!!

Coney Island