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Tuesday, 6 September 2016

The limits of a points system

I must be frank and re-state that I've never personally found a problem with EU immigration to the UK, the Roma excepted, but I am quite aware that there are people and communities who have been swamped by strangers. On sites I've known excellent Portuguese mason-paviors, hard grafting Poles, skilled Balts and even an Ace Albanian drainlayer under God knows what passport. 

Agriculture and horticulture is utterly dependent on EU migrant labour to get strawberries into our dessert bowls and vegetables to the freezer plant. There have been harvest labour schemes long pre-dating freedom of movement from the new accession states. 

None of these would get in under a points system. Nor would young European Erasmus students spending a year in 'intern' type jobs in our hotels and restaurants. Nor would the French Mauritian delivery driver who delivers French goods in London from 'French Click' with care, passion and pleasure. 

The UK is a sort of finishing school for bright, sociable, civilised and well-educated young Kermits, Hermans, Italians and Spaniards. The sight of six or eight young Kermits, not one over twenty, taking over a table in a pub for an extended sociable, animated lunch with an assurance, aplomb and maturity utterly alien to our own youths is a learning experience they could charge to watch. 

So I'm not going to get exited that we're abandoning a points system. We (or at least I) don't want an end to EU immigration or seasonal workers, just a mechanism to allow us to regulate it where it adversely affects other facets of our national life.


markc said...


Brexit (I'm a committed supporter) was not (or should not have been) about European immigration though it's difficult to see that from meejah coverage. European immigration, by and large, has been hugely positive for us and for the immigrants, and so I agree with your comment. European immigrants are of us, pretty much; many differences but enough of a common heritage that it's not a particular problem.

Where we DO most definitely have a problem with immigration is with people coming in from cultures which are simply alien to ours. The unskilled, the inbred, the unthinking, practitioners of a religion which advocates the overthrow of any and all others, people who think it's right to burn, shoot, behead, defenestrate and detonate those who have a different mindset.

I'm in Lincolnshire, where the number of Poles in particular has soared. Yes, there are a few toerags amongst them but we produce plenty of those for ourselves. For the most part, the incomers are educated, pleasant, hard working and just want to be left alone to get on with their lives. They're not trying to make the UK into Warsaw or Gdansk or to force Catholicism on us, unlike those of their Eastern counterparts who consider it their holy mission to kill or convert a society which doesn't need them.

APL said...

It's not 'migration', it's the automatic right to settle that's the problem. And the concomitant obligation to state support the hordes who are attracted here because there is no welfare and no jobs in their own countries.

DeeDee99 said...

I voted Brexit so the British Government would have the ability to govern the country in the interests of the BRITISH people (not 27 other countries) which included the ability to control immigration from Europe.

I didn't vote for a particular system and the Leave campaign had no power to enforce the one they suggested during their campaign. I'm fairly relaxed if Theresa May decides against a points-based system.

It's obvious that certain sectors will require more foreign workers than others. Agriculture is obvious, as is the hotel industry and social/personal care system.

But the practice of businesses advertising jobs abroad and not in the UK must be stopped. There has to be a disconnect between coming to the UK to take up work and receiving immediate full access to our public services and welfare state for themselves and their children and elderly parents. We cannot afford to provide education and healthcare, let alone benefits and pensions for people who have never contributed.

Poisonedchalice said...

There is a hackneyed joke that goes "what is the 6th largest city in France?" - answer: London. London has about 500,000 French people working and paying taxes and contributing in a very positive way. Analogous perhaps to the rest of the UK. What we don't want under any circumstances is the Islamic detritus of the rest of the world thinking that they too can pitch up here and benefit, but without making that all important contribution to our western values.

The problem we have suffered for 20 years now, is that politicians are too thick to understand the difference between those two scenarios, which the working public of this country (and maybe Europe too) understand only too well, but get shouted down when they try to point out that all important differentiator.

Barnacle Bill said...

I fully agree with and second the comments DeeDee99 makes.

I voted "Leave" to break the shackles of EU federalist tyranny and return the proper governance of the UK to our parliament. Where in future legislation will be enacted for the benefit of the peoples of the United Kingdom.

How this is achieved I leave to this to those better qualified than myself. Hoping that at all times they will put the interests of the UK first and foremost.

As to DeeDee99's point about the immediate access to all our public services that newly arrived immigrants have and sem to expect as a given right. I feel that the question of a national ID card system is well worth exploring.

Yes I realize that many will throw their arms up in the air saying "Never" & "Over my dead body" etc ... But when you consider the personal data we already surreneder to the government - driving licences, NI cards, national & local electoral details, PAYE codes, etc ... I don't really see a national ID card system involving anymore handing over of identity than we do nowadays?

As for any new immigrant followers of the RoP, Calais and a glimpse of the white cliffs is as far as they get.

Mr Ecks said...

You can screw your national ID card. Our enemies aren't hard to identify.

Some Europeans are alright to work for a while or even settle. 750000 Poles in 19 years. Way too many.

What is all that mad bollocks in the first posting about?

Raedwald said...

Mr X - I've deleted the first comment - as I delete all spam that's related to issues elesewhere. I know nothing of the matters referred to, don't want to find out, and have absolutely no desire to get involved in someone else's interweb spat.

Anonymous said...

Radders, I agree 100%.

There are two things we need to manage:

1) You can come to work, you can't come to claim benefits.
2) Merkel can't push her muslim migration problem onto us by giving them EU passports and a ticket to London.

Dave_G said...

One specific rule of entry should be a sworn declaration to obey the laws of the land, not to undermine the culture of our country or operate under any other system of law other than ours on threat of immediate removal with no recourse to appeal.

The points-based system should be applicable to people seeking permanent residence and the authorities should do THEIR DUTY and properly police those that enter on temporary applications to ensure their removal on expiration - at whatever cost and with punitive action against those who fail to abide by the rules and also those who attempt to aide and abet transgressors.

None of this is 'impossible' or impractical. All it requires is the political will.

Budgie said...

The points based immigration system that VoteLeave finally picked up on (it was actually a long standing UKIP policy) was primarily there to de-politicise the issue. That was because the EU's free movement had been commandeered by the race-obsessed rentamob Corbynasty types.

As Dave_G says a points system is right for permanent migrants. But it also makes perfect sense for temporary migration such as seasonal workers, or for unexpected skills shortages in conjunction with work visas.

I think the concern expressed about Theresa May's comments is valid disquiet about her not really being on-side for Brexit.

mikebravo said...


" All it requires is the political will."

Therein will lie our doom. There will not be the will to exclude the head and genital choppers.

All cultures are equal, but some cultures are more equal than others.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:15 has hit the nail on the head. Why most of them come is to extract the generous benefits. You can get them IN or OUT of work. We could cure some of the migration problems if we demanded:
1. No-one entered unless they had valid health insurance for (say) five years
2. No-one gets benefits until they paid in for (say) 5 years (Not bad for some of the resident parasites too)
3. 'Irish' travellers sent packing
4. Criminals deported
5. Families of terrorists deported
6. Oath of allegiance, breach of which leads to deportation
7. Monogamists only
8. Test of eligibility: eat a bacon sarnie at the port of entry and piss on a Koran

Anonymous said...

In general:

The Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan: White Genocide Via Mass Immigration


'Genocide - Eliminating The English' (pdf)


Thud said...

I only care abut those who have come to destroy either by overt violence or otherwise, lawfare etc. its not Euopeans I have ever been bothered about.

Anonymous said...

In principle I believe in freedom of movement BUT it doesnt mix with a welfare state and Political correctness.
Be open to all but they have to be totally self-supporting, have a three strikes and your out rule, no voting rights and only after 10years can they apply for full citizen rights. Any genuine hard luck cases can be picked up and supported by private charities or the bleeding heart luvvies.

anon 2 said...

Well, guess what. I'm no happier about having London taken over by Frogs (AGAIN) than by Mozzies. In the faces of both, we spent centuries developing our own systems and asserting our own rights: and that after centuries of doing so against (un)holy Romans, Vikings, and even one or two Celtic kinsfolk. That's why we fought off the Jerries, as well.

During, even because of, those fights, our forefathers established a great and brilliant country that would gradually contribute all kinds of insight and progress to the darker parts of the planet. And no, 'dark' is not a reference to skin-colour.

So no, Raedwald. I'm less than sanguine about your picture of elegant egotistical Kermits. I don't want to be ruled by euros, the euSSR, or the Caliphate. I want our country back.


Anonymous said...

If you need hordes of unsellected foreigners to pick your strawberries etc - then go without.