tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post1273901973725763799..comments2023-09-28T13:28:52.243+01:00Comments on Raedwald: The whole point of BrexitRaedwaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-27068606218257037842019-01-12T11:37:04.674+00:002019-01-12T11:37:04.674+00:00Anonymous 121:47 said: "How else are you goin...Anonymous 121:47 said: "How else are you going to make a Single Market in goods, services and labour work?"<br /><br />By mutual recognition and competition as Margaret Thatcher envisaged. Without dirigiste centralisation; and without free movement of labour. FFS.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-27890062336477924732019-01-11T13:47:47.655+00:002019-01-11T13:47:47.655+00:00Read the pamphlet FFS. Especially "aims of th...Read the pamphlet FFS. Especially "aims of the EC".<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-16969179279426288602019-01-11T12:14:15.008+00:002019-01-11T12:14:15.008+00:00.. But FCO 30/1048 available at https://s3-eu-west..... But FCO 30/1048 available at https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/acft/FCO+30+1048.pdf makes clear many of the claims in that pamphlet were outright lies - government and civil servants knew full well the impacts on sovreignty etc the EEC would have. Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-20941466862012431302019-01-11T11:48:25.672+00:002019-01-11T11:48:25.672+00:00Could you expand on that?Could you expand on that?Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-35683600746676604392019-01-11T11:47:13.196+00:002019-01-11T11:47:13.196+00:00How else are you going tp make a Single Market in ...How else are you going tp make a Single Market in goods, services and labour work?<br /><br />What is the matter with you?<br /><br />The cretinous line is "we thought we were only voting for a trading bloc".<br /><br />The pamphlet makes clear. You were NOT, and it could not have made it plainer.<br /><br />More Leave lies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-75290330428806105382019-01-11T10:58:19.188+00:002019-01-11T10:58:19.188+00:00@Anon - since when did "to bring together the...<br />@Anon - since when did "to bring together the peoples of Europe" equal:<br /><br />harmonising taxes, <br />having a single Supreme Court, <br />giving up control of your borders, <br />allowing free movement of people, <br />losing Habeas Corpus, <br />having a joint defense policy,<br />losing your foreign policy,<br />giving up trade negotiating rights,<br />subsidising foreign Governments,<br />bypassing your own Government procedures,<br />creating a more convoluted path towards your representative (i.e. loss of direct vote,<br />PAYING (extortionately) for those 'privileges' etc etc.<br /><br />The sentence <b>bring together the people of Europe</b> certainly has a flexible meaning........<br /><br />The argument over 1975 is precisely because those elements WERE NOT MENTIONED in the '75 document (even though they were all planned for introduction) and the people were deliberately deceived by the use of the 'innocent' line you quote.<br /><br />Reminds me of the man who was told "yes, we can help you with marriage papers, just step inside for a moment" - Saudi embassy in Turkey I recall.....Dave_Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-9248458398737126652019-01-11T10:38:19.566+00:002019-01-11T10:38:19.566+00:00"Freedom is slavery" is pretty desperate...<i>"Freedom is slavery" is pretty desperate even by the debased standards of project fear. </i>-Mark<br /><br />Actually I was shorthanding an argument posited by some leading Leavers: namely that leaving the EU is merely operating on the symptoms not curing/eradicating the disease itself. jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-2148516054360576092019-01-11T10:34:35.086+00:002019-01-11T10:34:35.086+00:00Thanks for the pamphlet.
So there we have it. The...Thanks for the pamphlet.<br /><br />So there we have it. The prime aim of the then EC was "to bring together the peoples of Europe"<br /><br />So the claim that people "had no idea for what they were voting in 1975" is exposed as the utter boloney it always was.<br /><br />The EU turned out exactly as expected by me and by the millions of others who had read that pamphlet, sent to every electoral address in the UK.<br /><br />And jolly good it is too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-30865809261131166762019-01-11T10:33:44.337+00:002019-01-11T10:33:44.337+00:00Jack Ketch said: "... I figure we are entitle...Jack Ketch said: "... I figure we are entitled to know what the 'upsides' of being de-citizenshipped are going to be...and I don't mean nebulous , ethereal notions of 'freedom' and 'Independence' which will be nothing more than continued slavery to the UN, Westminster and Islam".<br /><br />That is so typical of Remain. It is a trick argument - by attempting to remove the concepts of freedom and independence from consideration the argument is corralled into the areas in which the Remain feels more at home. It is a trick the BBC uses too. Actually, freedom and independence are vital, and the bedrock of our civilisation.<br /><br />The EU does not give its "citizens" any "rights" that have not been stolen from its member states in the first place - because the EU is an artificial political construct. The most cited "right" by Remains is being able to live and work in another EU state. But that exists because the EU has removed the right of that state to exclude you or just limit the numbers.<br /><br />And unless a Remain tries to contend that the EU subsidises the UK, the wealth that we have is generated by us, not the EU. The often cited single market may make it easier for us to sell to the rEU but it equally makes it easier for them to sell to the UK. That has been a bad bargain to the tune of about £90bn a year to the rEU's advantage.<br />Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-46485863424397217412019-01-11T09:42:03.349+00:002019-01-11T09:42:03.349+00:00@JohnRM
The choice in 1975 was the same: Do we re...@JohnRM<br /><br />The choice in 1975 was the same: Do we remain as members of the Common Market, or do we leave<br /><br />http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm<br /><br />I voted to leave, as I wrote above.<br /><br />The manner in which my choice was made was by putting a kiss in a box marked "no", I do not remember anything about an out option.<br /><br />The 2016 referendum was going to have the same choice but an appeal was made to the electoral commission over the negative connotations of the word "no", and so "leave" and "remain" became the agreed options.<br /><br />Little did we know, although we should have guessed that the real options were "remain" and "remain", the latter was just written differently, it actually read like "leave".Stephen Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628822966183977715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-10121523925782995182019-01-11T08:20:09.694+00:002019-01-11T08:20:09.694+00:00It's the same sense of entitlement and arrogan...It's the same sense of entitlement and arrogance that saw Geldof and assorted hooray Henry's screaming abuse at working class fishermen - who took their small boats up the Thames to protest at the decimation of their livelihoods by the EU and series of compliant British Governments.<br /><br />And it's the same arrogance that results in the British Government shovelling £13 billion a year or more at foreign Governments and Charity Quangos, whilst declaring that it can't afford to provide decent accommodation or services in deprived British communities.<br /><br />And it will result in a Corbyn Government; because metropolitan affluent young who want the "free opportunities" they believe EU membership gives them will vote for him - and so will the deprived communities. <br /><br />The CONS only hope was to deliver a real Brexit quickly and efficiently to demonstrate their competence and still have 3-4 years to demonstrate that it isn't the disaster the Remainers fear. And they've allowed/forced that stupid woman to completely wreck it. DeeDee99https://www.blogger.com/profile/06753473473887381622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-54679564065424748562019-01-11T07:52:40.695+00:002019-01-11T07:52:40.695+00:00Or perhaps if we could have heard some reasoned ar...Or perhaps if we could have heard some reasoned arguments as to why we should have voted stay. It's not like you didn't have the platform or resources.<br /><br />"Freedom is slavery" is pretty desperate even by the debased standards of project fear.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-5494726631172107212019-01-11T01:27:03.635+00:002019-01-11T01:27:03.635+00:00right-write,
I think you voted No rather than Out...right-write,<br /><br />I think you voted No rather than Out in 75. As did I. Shame so few listened to us.JohnRMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02608128676451694563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-38015195093388963682019-01-10T22:55:37.081+00:002019-01-10T22:55:37.081+00:00No amount of reasoning could alter their opinions....<i>No amount of reasoning could alter their opinions.</i>-Anon<br /><br />Perhaps if your 'reasoning' had included a couple of real, <i>tangible</i> benefits <i>to them</i> and the country as a whole, you might have made a more convincing case. Maybe that is 'selfish' of me, and those you doorstepped, but when you are willing to make us UnEUmenschen then I figure we are entitled to know what the 'upsides' of being de-citizenshipped are going to be...and I don't mean nebulous , ethereal notions of 'freedom' and 'Independence' which will be nothing more than continued slavery to the UN, Westminster and Islam. jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-77629403318499716142019-01-10T21:28:45.192+00:002019-01-10T21:28:45.192+00:00I was an active Brexit campaigner in a very remain...I was an active Brexit campaigner in a very remain area. The 2 main objections from remainers were; 'worried about their pensions and investments' or 'I just feel European'. No amount of reasoning could alter their opinions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-28234827273660135872019-01-10T20:05:36.756+00:002019-01-10T20:05:36.756+00:00@Andy5759
As I suggested last week, the referendu...@Andy5759<br /><br />As I suggested last week, the referendum offered a binary choice regarding the EU treaties.<br /><br />So we took them at their word and chose one of 10 reasons to leave or remain.Stephen Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628822966183977715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-59063806180709179252019-01-10T19:48:45.143+00:002019-01-10T19:48:45.143+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stephen Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628822966183977715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-49946558474489138182019-01-10T18:57:23.689+00:002019-01-10T18:57:23.689+00:00Immediately after the referendum those who voted t...Immediately after the referendum those who voted to leave were branded as anti immigration bigoted racists. I didn't consider that immigration was central to my reasoning, nor many others I know. The most common theme was the total unaccountability of the EU. The blatant arrogance of the various presidents. The red tape which hinders small businesses. The baiting of the Russian Bear in the Crimea. Above all there is the shoddy way in which Britain is treated. Oh, immigration. More Poles, Czechs, Romanians, and others from Europe will be gratefully welcomed. Europe can keep it's replacement population.Andy5759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-26924560317937267212019-01-10T18:54:35.367+00:002019-01-10T18:54:35.367+00:00Perhaps we can campaign to have the honorific '...<br />Perhaps we can campaign to have the honorific 'Right Honorable' - or simply 'Honorable' - removed from ALL politicians.<br /><br />Such an 'honor' needs to be earned (by proof) rather than being bestowed as a 'right' for simply being an MP.<br /><br />There can be no possible excuse for MP's that actively oppose the will of the people from being referred to as honorable - the counter-evidence is right in front of them.<br /><br />"I call upon the Right Treasonous Member of Wankistan to speak...." etc.<br /><br />Online campaign maybe?<br />Dave_Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-28712588051850421632019-01-10T16:28:36.208+00:002019-01-10T16:28:36.208+00:00@jack ketch - deffo me being sarcastic! Maybe Righ...@jack ketch - deffo me being sarcastic! Maybe Right-writes could confirm? Apols to him or her if I misread him or her... Elby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-87009828664954767882019-01-10T16:26:10.642+00:002019-01-10T16:26:10.642+00:00@Elby the Beserk:
Yes, the first time I voted, wa...@Elby the Beserk:<br /><br />Yes, the first time I voted, was to leave....<br /><br />But that was in 1975.Stephen Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628822966183977715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-87602076410645635042019-01-10T16:20:21.809+00:002019-01-10T16:20:21.809+00:00I thought that you could make a stab at justifying...I thought that you could make a stab at justifying Leaving to Remainers as allowing their numerous national gravy trains to continue without the constraint of being mindful of the 'ever-closer-union' mindset and oversight by the Empire. Nationalist parties can campaign more freely, different major parties can create more eye-catching manifestos, most of Britains small businesses will be (eventually) free of unnecessary red tape, we get to keep more corporate taxes on products and services bought here, bigger lobbying operations in Westminster.<br /><br />Allways assuming that the Establishment makes it through the current Parliamentary embarrassments.DiscoveredJoyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05300239909689336895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-21529591288617528702019-01-10T15:28:53.031+00:002019-01-10T15:28:53.031+00:00Is "Colin" one of these paid political t...Is "Colin" one of these paid political trolls I read about? His use of the old-fashioned term "lackeys" suggests a Marxist agitprop background. What next? Paper tigers? Lickspittle running dogs?Sackersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17284329249862764601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-6337075456036631342019-01-10T15:27:27.598+00:002019-01-10T15:27:27.598+00:00@Elby I think Right-writes was being sarcastic (pe...@Elby I think Right-writes was being sarcastic (perhaps you were too, hard to tell, so apologies if I misread you).jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-29488079337941432462019-01-10T15:21:48.753+00:002019-01-10T15:21:48.753+00:00@right write - so you listened to politicians and ...@right write - so you listened to politicians and they lied to you? Uh? See my post above with link. You are the first Leaver I know who was didn't decide years ago we needed out. Maybe try thinking for yourself? Elby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.com