tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post1978806398119311513..comments2023-09-28T13:28:52.243+01:00Comments on Raedwald: WELL, PRIME MINISTER, WERE YOU LYING OR NOT?Raedwaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-36210102043448682012018-07-08T20:13:47.455+01:002018-07-08T20:13:47.455+01:00I don't think the sort of glue Gove and the ot...I don't think the sort of glue Gove and the other Cabinet fainthearts would make would be any good at sticking to anything...John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-44611773658693128502018-07-08T13:33:21.357+01:002018-07-08T13:33:21.357+01:00My preference was for a norway type transition in ...My preference was for a norway type transition in order to prepare for a full exit as and when.<br /><br />As i have posted here many a time and oft.<br /><br />However, as our italian friends might say, mi sono rotto i coglioni, vaffanculo. Bring a total fucking hard exit . At the end of the day the euros will suffer more than us. may has totally betrayed what little trust we gave her.<br /><br />The so called cabinet brexiteers need to be boiled down to make glue.<br /><br />Bring it on.Cuffleyburgershttp://www.homoitalicus.itnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-70304686905240665552018-07-08T11:37:11.595+01:002018-07-08T11:37:11.595+01:00Jack Ketch, How could Barnier possibly "shaft...<i>Jack Ketch, How could Barnier possibly "shaft 500 million Europeans"? Apart from the fact that the rEU has a population of c450 million</i> -Budgie<br /><br />Uhm I was still, mentally, counting us as 'Europeans'. For the last 2 years Barnier has consistently maintained that the 4 Freedoms are absolute, non-negotiable and take primacy over any and all trade considerations (Ie even if Brexit were to bankrupt the EU). That 'out' means 'out' <i>with all the consequences good and bad</i> (Galileo etc).If he suddenly agree to soften the EU's Red Lines in response to May's fudge then that could ultimately lead to the break up of the EU- that's what I meant by shafting , shafting both UK and them. Brexit would instantly turn from being a 'minor annoyance' (to quote one EU official this week) to being a PROBLEM.<br />It is ironic that both BrexSShiteurs and Remainers are praying that Barnier was just being his usual polite self and waiting for the White Paper to be published at least before saying 'Non'...because that is pretty much the only way you'll get the sort of Brexit you want now. Barnier says 'Non, Non, NON!' and the Tories defenestrate May by her kitten heels and then elect a leader who will lead. jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-75590181859179545772018-07-08T11:18:48.245+01:002018-07-08T11:18:48.245+01:00Jack Ketch, How could Barnier possibly "shaft...Jack Ketch, How could Barnier possibly "shaft 500 million Europeans"? Apart from the fact that the rEU has a population of c450 million, and many EU inhabitants are not "European", we have been endlessly told by Remains such as yourself that the UK is not important to the EU. Therefore the population of the rEU can be supremely indifferent to whatever deal emerges, whether full FTA, May's bodge, or WTO: life won't change for the EU serfs.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-43547159675531310042018-07-08T11:09:18.328+01:002018-07-08T11:09:18.328+01:00Please read the 12 point plan signed by Theresa Ma...Please read the 12 point plan signed by Theresa May. I find it excruciatingly and embarrassingly amateurish. The language is GCSE level, and it looks like no lawyer has checked it over for the obvious blunders and contradictions.<br /><br />Apart from anything else she cannot bring herself to say "We will be leaving . . .", instead the first point is "Leaving the EU on 29th March 2019" (??!). Then she cannot make her mind up whether she is talking about "Britain", the "UK", or "GB". Frankly if the UK and the EU were football teams we'd get the most monumental drubbing of our lives, and deserve it.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-33705464241626664182018-07-07T23:49:26.556+01:002018-07-07T23:49:26.556+01:00"We Leave voters have been comprehensively sh..."We Leave voters have been comprehensively shafted."<br /><br />As I recall you saying many times past would happen. However not only have they shafted you but the entire nation-be they leave, remain or 'would yous quite the fuck over with brexit its boring'ers. <br /><br />After JRM's somewhat strange reference to Davis' 'titanium backbone' I had a feeling that the supposed hardcore brexiteers: Bojo, Davis and the rest of their ilk would cave in. <br /><br />Worst still I have feeling Barnier is about to shaft 500 million Europeans by agreeing to soften their redlines too.jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-70109876108528045412018-07-07T22:21:02.053+01:002018-07-07T22:21:02.053+01:00With a hefty flourish of theatre, Theresa May has ...With a hefty flourish of theatre, Theresa May has brought us the "Kit-Kat" Brexit: hard Remain tack on the inside, smothered with a thin layer of soft gooey Leave platitudes on the outside to kid us it is palatable. After all, we were told that was what our civil servants were "negotiating" with their "colleagues" in Brussels a few months ago, so we shouldn't be surprised. We Leave voters have been comprehensively shafted.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-37597559734160375162018-07-07T17:33:51.096+01:002018-07-07T17:33:51.096+01:00"The Globalists want the EU to survive and wi..."The Globalists want the EU to survive and will willingly sacrifice what passes for democracy in the UK in order to achieve it."<br /><br />You can't expect rich and powerful people to be in favour of democracy. The surprising thing is that a few are.<br /><br />Don CoxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-88326851142915993452018-07-07T17:21:55.085+01:002018-07-07T17:21:55.085+01:00At no point have I ever envisaged that we would ge...At no point have I ever envisaged that we would get any deal.<br />They will let us crash out then pull all the stops out to screw us and claim it was all down to Brexit so more countries don't tell them where to stick their 1000 year reich.<br /><br />These bastards have been our natural enemies for hundreds of years. They ain't gonna change now...<br /><br />Did May lie to us? Of course she did. She's a politician.Dioclesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08996613810576387778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-80362913593649182432018-07-07T06:43:51.845+01:002018-07-07T06:43:51.845+01:00@Dave_G
"This is no longer about Brexit - th...@Dave_G<br /><br />"This is no longer about Brexit - this is about saving the EU (or trying)."<br /><br />I agree. The Globalists want the EU to survive and will willingly sacrifice what passes for democracy in the UK in order to achieve it.DeeDee99https://www.blogger.com/profile/06753473473887381622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-34009863770885776882018-07-07T00:15:47.063+01:002018-07-07T00:15:47.063+01:00Anon at 11:19 said: "EEA Art 112/113 allows s...Anon at 11:19 said: "EEA Art 112/113 allows suspension of free movement".<br /><br />No, it doesn't. In any case "suspension" of free movement is not the same as halting, or controlling.<br /><br />Have you actually read Articles 112 and 113 (EEAA)? In point of fact the Articles are silent on specific measures such as free movement. There is no right of control by the signatory: every move is hedged by qualifications such as "serious"; and any safeguard measures "shall be restricted with regard to their scope and duration to what is strictly necessary", and reviewed "with a view to their abolition".Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-75453049849836721622018-07-06T23:43:38.418+01:002018-07-06T23:43:38.418+01:00Despite the claims of demi-Remains and EEA apologi...Despite the claims of demi-Remains and EEA apologists, the fact is that the EEA agreement imposes the EU's internal market on all nations that sign up to it. EU rules equals EU control, adjudicated by the CJEU, with only minor input from the EFTA signatories and the EFTA Court. Where else do the rules come from if not the EU? And no, EEA rules are not merely international standards homologised by the EU.<br /><br />Headline in the DT 6th July: "Cabinet agrees Brexit deal that keeps Britain tied to EU rules and regulations indefinitely". This is confirmation of the betrayal of Leave long hinted at, and long expected. The problem for Remains is this: independence is valuable in its own right (hence why the EEA is not Leave); and as for trade, most of the planet is not in the EU (or the EEA), and gets by perfectly well without either.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-53784466860892565332018-07-06T22:38:27.818+01:002018-07-06T22:38:27.818+01:00Can't quite decide if "May has sold us ou...Can't quite decide if "May has sold us out" (to put it in the BrexSShiteur) or if she knows damn well this won't fly for the EU and so we get a hard Brexit by default.jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-9708417547993760322018-07-06T20:56:25.316+01:002018-07-06T20:56:25.316+01:00
Not nice to see you again Tingey. Not started on ...<br />Not nice to see you again Tingey. Not started on your eternity of oblivion yet?<br /><br />Being a remainiac is the next best thing I expect.Mr Ecksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-74860862444716501312018-07-06T20:08:04.066+01:002018-07-06T20:08:04.066+01:00Red-lines and politicians, what a bunch of nonsens...Red-lines and politicians, what a bunch of nonsense! Redlines are as flexible as cooked spaghetti as proven by camoron and obambi in recent times. So who would be so foolish as to believe anything Ms Maybe says related to red-lines.<br /><br />There will no doubt be much huffing and puffing and a great deal of superfluous "discussion" NOT about Brexit but how life can be made easier for your poor over-worked bureaucrats-surely it makes sense to maintain all the current agreements, the ECJ, free movement for all, in fact free everything for all that arrive on your shores, plus pay a kings ransom for the dubious benefit of being attached to a dying club based on a floundering currency -there is your discussion.<br /><br />Ms Maybe is just the latest in a long line of politicians that do not possess even the minimal skills of a junior manager, the ability to hold meetings, take minutes, and follow up what has been agreed on an ongoing basis, managing several projects at any time. Any presumption that she could do that plus negotiate without first revealing all the weaknesses your position may hold is fallacious. camoron wasted several years maybe seems intent on adding another decade of failure to yUKs resume.<br /><br />I await with pleasure the upcoming NATO meeting with President Trump where real negotiations are conducted, perhaps Ms maybe may yet learn by example.cascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-3841635619221111032018-07-06T16:14:49.789+01:002018-07-06T16:14:49.789+01:00May's current plan is intended to fail, and ma...May's current plan is intended to fail, and make the EEA seem a sensible alternative, and she might even cite North's idea of using the EEA to leave completely. Forgetting that the EU ensures no country can do so without severe damage. <br /><br />Taking Norway as an example:<br />After the 1972 referendum voted against joining the EEC, Norwegian governments negotiated with the EEC for trade agreements, until they were coerced into the EEA in January 1994 by their politicians, who lied to them about its intentions: they wanted to drag Norway into the EU (always an amenable prospect for national politicians.) Ten months later, Norwegians were offered a referendum, not on the EEA, but on full EU membership. Once again the Norwegians patiently rejected it. But the Norwegian politicians have never given up, and will be trying it on again soon, using EEA as an easy stepping stone. <br />The disadvantages of the EEA are subtle, and back in 1994 'free movement of people' was not the predatory, existential threat it has since become. But Norwegian politicians will never take Norway out of the EEA - they personally would lose too much comfort-zone. They cheerfully vote through every bit of EU legislation - 92% of it unanimously. And this is the level of input it has into EU legislation <br />http://www.efta.int/eea/decision-shaping <br />Hmmm. 'Exchange of views'. That's showing 'em.:-)<br /><br />If the UK is forced to join the EEA, voters will never again be given a choice in the matter. No major party will ever campaign for Brexit, and no pro-Brexit party will ever be allowed to share let alone take power. The global forces outside Britain and the political forces inside it are too strongly aligned against it. <br /><br />Admittedly, that would mean that democracy is doomed. But did we have we any illusions on that score, by now?<br />John Vaschttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00335331585265267754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-47906442615525269682018-07-06T15:54:30.009+01:002018-07-06T15:54:30.009+01:00I sincerely hope she was lying.
Because brexit bec...I sincerely hope she was lying.<br />Because brexit becomes more of an economic basket-case-car-crash by the minute.<br /><br />The only hope is that the impossibility shows up in time for us to revoke At50G. Tingeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09640068810654977205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-9706696892515621062018-07-06T15:01:18.271+01:002018-07-06T15:01:18.271+01:00It has seemed to me that North has been engaged in...It has seemed to me that North has been engaged in one of the longest dummy-spits in history since failing to win the 2014 Brexit Prize, which he appeared to think he just had to turn up and collect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-91362114717683007532018-07-06T14:22:37.937+01:002018-07-06T14:22:37.937+01:00The hardest facts for our government to understand...The hardest facts for our government to understand seem to be that we gave them a job to do, that it seems to believe was not an explicit instruction, namely to leave the treaties that comprise the treaty organisation that has come to be known as the EU (Yerp), and that the reason for leaving them is that we don't want them.<br /><br />Replacing them with a pisspoor copy was never on our agenda, for obvious reasons. We leavers, the politicians that were selling it, what became remainers and our government ALL rejected that, well before the vote took place.<br /><br />I was a member of the Harrogate Agenda (team) arrangement, I was booked to go the hotel in Harrogate where it was posited by North and accepted without discussion by his acolytes, and it was around then that I formed my correct negative opinion of North and all who sail in her.<br />Stephen Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628822966183977715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-41847889546963501182018-07-06T13:54:10.869+01:002018-07-06T13:54:10.869+01:00@right-writes, my heart is wholly with you; nobody...@right-writes, my heart is wholly with you; nobody dislikes this organisation, or hates its arrogance, any more than I do.<br /><br />But we are going to wake up on Saturday 30th March, 2019 with no idea of how we are going to carry on trading across borders, where our planes can or can not land, or what standards we are going to follow when dealing with a whole host of transactions; the existing structures will be dead.<br /><br />These things will have to be thrashed out - which will take a huge amount of time; and it's the time factor which is the most important.<br /><br />Believe me, I'm amazed that I'm defending North's proposed course of action, but there are hard facts to be dealt with, and burying our heads in the sand won't do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-42162664236922488072018-07-06T12:47:33.644+01:002018-07-06T12:47:33.644+01:00"There is no crash and burn option--that is r..."There is no crash and burn option--that is remainiac lying bollocks.<br /><br />We need no deal"<br /><br />An opinion that can only be sustained by ignoring inconvenient facts, which is generally a lefty trait and not one I would associate with the paragons who comment here.<br /><br />A clean exit might have been possible had contingency plans been made before the referendum (which Cameron shamefully and inexcusably failed to do) and serious preparations begun immediately after, which May shamefully and inexusably failed to do.<br /><br />The Government having failed to take those essential steps we have to look at matters how they are and not how we would like them to be, and recognise that a phased exit is now essential to avoid horrendous and unnecessary damage to our and our neighbours' economies, and the EEA route is the most likely to bring success.Cuffleyburgershttp://ww.homoitalicus.itnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-58147031929700803832018-07-06T12:29:52.919+01:002018-07-06T12:29:52.919+01:00"Well, Theresa, which future do you see for y..."Well, Theresa, which future do you see for yourself?"<br /><br /><br />Far more importanly: what future does she (mrs may) see for Britain?<br /><br /><br />That's the bloody problem, she has a list of stuff but with no vision, the only prime ambition is to herself and equal assignment to, what the UK establishment wishes and the good of the country its people: is not even aitting at bottom of that particular list. <br /><br />Fitz said it, 'ask not what your country can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your country' !!<br /><br />fat chance of that with maybot.Ravenscar.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-35159611353754365832018-07-06T12:29:12.306+01:002018-07-06T12:29:12.306+01:00Who cares who's right and who's wrong? Th...<br />Who cares who's right and who's wrong? The people have spoken and if that leads to 'disaster' (equally it could result in 'a resounding success') then it's for the PEOPLE to take control and manage their future as THEY see fit.<br /><br />This is the crux of the issue - the establishment/Government/Globalists all think they know better than 'us' and are prepared to sacrifice <b>us</b> for their 'obviously-better-knowledge-than-anyone-else' when they clearly have ulterior motives that wite us out of all conversations.<br /><br />Just leave FFS. End it. If we have to come back crawling and begging for forgiveness then lambaste us and make us 'pay' accordingly. If teh EU were that confident that this wouldn't happen then they'd STFU and leave us to it.<br /><br />Dave_Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-65523158802689182952018-07-06T12:18:04.505+01:002018-07-06T12:18:04.505+01:00Anonymouse - "The Norway option (North's ...Anonymouse - "The Norway option (North's Flexcit plan) in a way, returns the UK to what it voted for in 1975 - a common market."<br /><br />I think the third rate politicians and Civil Servants that have infested our public bodies should have listened to him in 2016. But, because of a) Not invented here mentality and b) Dr North tends to rub people up the wrong way, they just ignored him. Which tells me that none of them is mature enough to ignore the messenger and listen to the message.<br /><br />Dr North may not be correct on everything but I'd expect that he's more correct than our current lot of incompetents.John in Cheshirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16304578727119582195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-30497403040643214862018-07-06T12:11:08.098+01:002018-07-06T12:11:08.098+01:00Over 4,700 posts, over 30,000 comments and a motle...<i><br />Over 4,700 posts, over 30,000 comments and a motley of old tags outdated links and assorted clutter to transfer ... what could possibly go wrong? </i><br /><br />You might have a chat with Grandad, fellow Scriberlus , if you haven't already. He does exactly that sort of shit for a living (well to supplement his pension anyways), his rates are very reasonable and when problems occur,and they will, he is always on it and coding a solution.<br /><br />Although he doesn't trumpet the fact, he it was who managed to resurrect AnnaRaccoon's several-times-nuked blog.jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.com