Saturday, 23 July 2011

Sick scum

There is a cranks' corner of online libertarianism from which I dissociate myself utterly, a skin-crawling, tinfoil-hat and often borderline-deranged cabal of those who advocate violence and armed insurrection to achieve political change. The reality of this seditious and abhorrent internet abuse is the horror of Norway this morning. The killer is reported as having a known online presence and for protesting vociferously about Islamism, immigration and multikulti, a right-wing freak in the mould of Timothy McVeigh. There is no choice of tables on the web, and thus we all in some way share a platform with these people, but let me at least address the most repugnant advocates of death and harm to our fellow man.

The pope is not a twelve-foot lizard. Localism is not a conspiracy by the EU to take over the world. Don't quote American revolutionaries from 1776 at me like a parrot as though it's an unarguable justification for violence. And never, ever try to convince me that bloodshed and the extinction of human lives for the sake of your twisted and perverse world view is justified. You are not my equal, nor my peer. Your views render you beyond the pale of civilised discourse. Any distorted ideology that needs blood and slaughter to triumph is inherently evil and to be shunned like a rabid dog.

Democracy is a shield, not a sword.  


Anonymous said...

And on the other hand if we weren't subjected to a constant barage of nannying hateful socialist dogma by the politicians and the venal main stream media you would find that these people wouldn't have a platform.

They are a by product of a mendacious left wing movement that has tried its best to eradicate European people's religions and national identities.

I am not condoning the actions of the Nutter of Norway but I can appreciate why his ilk develop.

.....and to my mind I can only see things getting worse. I don't need a tin foil hat, you have your evidence from yesterday.

Anonymous said...

As soon as people start talking hatred, I move on to another comment/article...

Libertarianism/capitalism/conservatism etc. is more objective than subjective...

As soon as discussion becomes subjective, one starts to find fault where none exists.

Anonymous said...

This guy obviously has no place in a civilised society as he killed innocents, but how about those who advocate violence agaist politicians?

Liberista said...

democracy is a failure Sir, is a mob rule imposed with violence, and at a certain stage, the only answer is revolt, and therefore violence. this is reality, unfortunately. i am a very pacific person but i realize every day that massive injustice is forced on me with violence by the agents of "democracy".
the hope that democracy can cure itself of its maladies is wishful thinking and should be quite evident by now. we live in societies where entitlement recipients are the majority, and "democracy", the rule of law, or pacifism wont surely stop them from confiscating, with the use of maximum violence, every scrap of wealth we will ever produce. they are majority and they write the laws, and write and interpret the consitutions.
i am against violence, however our only choices are to revolt to this state of things, or declare defeat and accept the daily confiscation we are subjected to. i condemn however the norwegian terrorists, who kills and maim at random, doing nothing to fuether the cause of liberty.

Anonymous said...

As has been found in US school shootings, all it takes is for a few other people to be armed and the killer could have been stopped much sooner.

Raedwald said...

Anon 9.31 / Liberista;

It goes without saying there's a gulf between the hemp + lamp posts type comments not meant or understood as serious incitement to violence against the political class, and those who really believe that killing politicians is a good idea in practice.

Libertas, being in a minority doesn't give you the right to kill people. You may not like the 'majority' view but that's democracy - or would you rather only people that agreed with you qualify as citizens?

Killing rival politicians was a characteristic of the Weimar republic, Russia in the 1930s and a score of banana republics since. And it always led to nothing but totalitarianism and human misery.

TheRagingTory said...

those without swords still die upon them

Anonymous said...

Disagree here Raedwald – regional government with the EU Committee of the Regions running the show is a real policy.

But no, it’s not a conspiracy – it’s all in plain sight.

The ever-increasing deceit and fraud perpetrated against the peoples of the EU nation states will eventually lead to violence.

On the subject of the Norwegian killings – I am as horrified as you (and yes, I do rant on about hanging a few of our venal traitors from lamp posts)

But fear is a natural driver – politicians with their exercise in eugenics are only increasing that fear.

cuffleyburgers said...


The actions of this evil lunatic are tragic, and there can be no justification for such an action.

Not only have over 80 innocent people been murdered but a certain predictable result will be further infringements of the rights of other innocent, more surveillance, arms controls, and government spending on "security".

A black day in all respects.

Plus I am rather disgusted that some of the posters here seem equivocal about this - the outrageous illegality of the EU, the corruption of governments, frustration at immigration or any other legitimate grievance, does not in any way justify such an evil act as this

Anonymous said...

When politicians start mouthing about good men or good in general, I wonder, how would they know?
No, usually, they are in their exalted positions because a lot of good men and women put them there.
Not all politicians are all bad, but there is a corruption in the soul of powerful men and women.

But then, NO MAN is perfect, the propensity for both good and evil stalks us all.

This Norwegian may have had genuine grievances, who is to know?
His frustrations pent up for years, however violence and wanton slaughter is not the way.

Anyone who wrestles with his or her conscience is always in fear of their violent potential, also, that at times, abhorrent though it may be, a measured response to violence can be required.

Burke has it:

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

Who is to say, that a new Pol Pot figure will not arise out of the new European order, as each day passes, the gap [already vast] widens between, us the people and our masters.

Violence should never be a means to an end but as time passes and powerful people realise they can do aught, the citizens voice is incrementally muffled and then stifled by absolute power.
Where then, can good men go, it did no good - shouting for democracy in Tiananmen square.

Anonymous said...

Well, if the killer had been a left wing nutter, instead of a neo Nazi one, only one thing would have been sure.
He would have made a complete utter failure out of it.

Gallovidian said...

Timothy McVeigh had an East Asian girlfriend, little reported presumably because it does gel well with his much touted Right-Wingness.

Wait til it all comes out in the wash.

Timothy Allen Davis (USA) said...

I think here Mr. Raedwald you have pretty much shown your true colors. Equateing that man with "american revolutionaires". Timothy McViegh. A right winger maybe in some respects but never a conservative.
I could point out to you the differences but it would be pointless.
You keep bitching, griping, moaning and complaining about how bad things are there in the U.K. but you will never ever do anything except push buttons on a keyboard about it. Of this I am certain.
Good Luck with that.

James Higham said...

Libertas, being in a minority doesn't give you the right to kill people. You may not like the 'majority' view but that's democracy - or would you rather only people that agreed with you qualify as citizens?

Fully agree. There is a civilized way to resolve things and then there is this. Taking a human life is a crime.

Twisted Root said...

A decent period of reflection has most value at the moment. It would be respectful toward the bereaved and the victims. I can not mourn them; I did not know them.

In about a weeks time after everyone, apart from those who have lost loved ones, has had their say and filed the memory into the 'terrible things that happen' folder of the of the remote recesses of the brain, the sickening thought of those who muttered platitudes as a fig leaf of decency for their hasty finger-
pointing will surface for the thoughtful.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

Let's see what comes out in the wash eh? There's a lot of rushing to attribute this to "right wing" political ideology.

That this guy should see this as an acceptable act doesn't say much for his mental state - where will the lefty press go with this? = The Oslo bomber was right wing (conservative) and bonkers so ergo... anybody of the political right must be tarred with the same brush? Hmmm... that's not very healthy ....

In a country where retail booze over 3.5% has to be purchased from the gummint (and recorded) that apparently 6 tons of fertiliser and guns and ammunition can be accumulated by a nutter - now there's a question a few Norwegians must be asking themselves....

The suffocating authoritarian nanny-ism and PC-ostrichism of the Norwegian state is causing pressures and deep divisions in the populace and there is a streak of Viking violence and a taste for uniforms in Norway - I have witnessed that first hand.

A very sad business.

As to all the nutters on the Internet - well, they're there in everyday life - if you're a medicated nutjob they might take your driving licence off you but they don't confiscate keyboards yet... It's just that the nutters persist on the 'net - the biggest tape recorder in history.

Liberista said...

democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

Gallovidian said...

Apparently a Born Again Christian who was offended by the Norwegian Government distancing itself from Israel.

In their belief system Israel must be supported so that rapture can occur and Jesus return to save the righteous.

Of course the Beeb will claim he was a BNP member or something.

Richard said...

"Any distorted ideology that needs blood and slaughter to triumph is inherently evil and to be shunned like a rabid dog".

Democracy ... Dresden?

Raedwald said...

Richard - it's arguable that Dresden, like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, had the net effect of saving lives; besides, it wasn't done to further an ideology, but to defeat one that had plunged Europe into a maelstrom of evil and destruction.

Liberista said...

Mussolini and Hitler enjoyed a strong popular support. so does Hamas. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden and many others where terrist attacks executed by government democratically elected. they had no military value whatsoever. exactly like the people slaughtered in Norwey.

Lord T said...

'it's arguable that Dresden, like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, had the net effect of saving lives'

Isn't that the same logic the nutter was using. You have just drawn the line in a slightly different place than he has. He hit his line, you still have a long way to go. The real question though is how many other lines in the sand are being reached now or after the next nanny state ban.