Sunday, 13 November 2011

Even 'bad' democratic decisions are better than this

A warm welcome back to Richard North, who has returned to find that commentators all over the place, including in a Telegraph leader, are waking to the fact that our rule by a Rousseau-esque technocracy, an elite Euro Commissary, is a tad anti-democratic. These are people who tell us we must sacrifice democracy and liberty in order to be truly free; who tell us they know best, that they have the solution for a Utopian continent, and that everything they do is for our own good. And neither are they lying. These people really do believe the truth of their 'project', believe that riding roughshod over nations and democracy will somehow produce something universally good, fair and equal for all the peoples of Europe. However, as Janet Daley points out in the Telegraph this morning 
What the architects of the dream, and even those of us who are caught in the backwash, will have to accept is that capitalism is probably incapable of producing enough wealth to cover the cost of limitless “social protection” programmes as well as providing uniform levels of prosperity for all working and non-working citizens.
It's all about trust, and the Euro-elite simply don't trust voters to make the 'right' decisions. They're blind to the greater truth, that even 'bad' decisions made democratically are better than 'good' decisions made by a dictatorship. 


Mr K said...

Both Left and Right must feel squeamish about what is in effect unelected Leaders put in place, because they could not get what the Eurozone political Elite (not the people) and world capitalism wants, past the people in a vote.

I write for a Libertarian Left Blog Think Left, and a colleague published this recently:

The Euro-fantasy dreamt up by EU Leaders will fail. I can really see the people of Greece and probably Italy taking grievances against what is a form of dictatorship to the streets.

Good luck to them - democracy needs it.

Anonymous said...

But whose fault is it? Dig deeper and reveal the root cause. Its all very well saying that democracy has been trampled on - and indeed it has. But isn't that what the EU is all about anyway? And didn't these countries vote to join? And who spent the money that clearly was not theirs to spend in the first place? Their respective governments knew this and sure as eggs are eggs, their people knew it as well. Where the hell did they think the money came from? The money fairy?

Countries just cannot keep pissing money into fatuous schemes (scams) and capitalism cannot afford the money to prop them up. If someone doesn't get a grip on these economies then the markets will. And the markets will dictate the policy just as surely as any unelected technocrat.

The PIIGS countries have lost the right to self governance because it was they that pissed away all our money. They have lost the right to fiscal governance because a) they are deliberately crap at it and b) someone from outside (IMF, bailout fund, whatever) has to try and stop the nonesense and recover what is salvageable.

The only real road out is the short term pain caused by dropping ouit of the Euro and going back to being a cheap holiday destination and competing on the world stage by producing value for money exports.

Coney Island

DerekP said...

"Countries just cannot keep pissing money into fatuous schemes (scams) and capitalism cannot afford the money to prop them up."

For me that neatly summarises the EU 'elites' attitude - 'we lent you the money, you haven't managed it well, now we'll call the tune'.

That sounds reasonable except for the other side of the coin - the lender also has responsibilities and takes calculated risks. The situation only gets out of hand if the lender is also crap, in which case why put the lender into the position of sorting it out, i.e. continue with the 'elites' oh-so-wonderful plan?

This fiscal mess has been created by the EU 'elites' drive for an EU state, with the significant step of monetary union. These were undemocratic and (as usual with our stupid and hubristic politicians and bureaucrats) impractical political acts. Why continue with them?

As you conclude - 'out of the euro', as should never have been in.

Fruitbat said...

The EU powers that be are not as scared of the people (I would say 'electorate', but that is no longer the case) as they are of their pet project collapsing. They are now quite happy to act so blatantly as they are, and there is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, that they will now not do to keep the EU propped-up.
They will steal every pension pot, savings etc, to keep it going, and when it finally does fall apart, what will be left will be a wasteland.....

Mr K said...

How Goldman Sachs collaborated in Greece's downfall:,1518,676634,00.html

Sean said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sean said...

In a word....ideology.

Living inside the model, and not seeing the world and reality change around you.

And very, very dangerous. These people are so wrapped up in this ideology they will bring the whole world down with them, Witch I am sad to say Germany once again at the centre of it.

Anonymous said...

'Time' is all it takes - time for the people to come to their rational senses and fully understand the predicament they have been placed in. PLACED in, because it was their Government that took the shilling and proffered it about so willingly - probably at the ultimate behest of their EU masters in an attempt to get the people to 'appreciate just what the EU can do for them...'.
Who can blame the people for accepting the offerings when, I'm sure, they weren't fully aware of the terms and conditions behind it. The EU were hardly likely to admit to their ultimate aim were they?
Yes, time will tell - and I reckon it will be early next year when the truth dawns on sufficient numbers of them for the 'fun' to kick off.

Anonymous said...

You really need to take a look at Singapore; the most successful socalist 'dictatorship' so far!

nisakiman said...

With regards Greece (the only southern European country of which I have personal knowledge), I think Coney Island is being a little unfair to the average Greek. I posted a comment on this subject on Norman Tebbit's blog, which I have copied and pasted here, as I can't be bothered to re-write the whole thing! :¬))

Greece is between a rock and a hard place. The austerity measures mandated by Merkel, Sarkozy et al (who, like most politicians, live in a parallel universe where they remain untouched by the policies they unleash on the demos) will destroy the economy, such as it is. The brightest and the best are leaving in droves, the punitive taxes are driving small businesses (the backbone of the internal Greek economy) to the wall in huge numbers, foreign investment is being plundered with hostility, ensuring that that source of income will slow to a dribble and the man on the street is finding that the Euro in his pocket has lost most of it's purchasing power, and so isn't spending. Add to all that the fact that Greece is now becoming one of the most expensive holiday destinations in Europe, thus strangling the tourist industry, traditionally one of Greece's major earners, and you have a recipe for disaster.

In fact, if you were to set out to destroy an economy, you would be well advised to follow the (EU imposed) Greek template. Everything they are currently doing is a short term money grab, and a year or so down the line they will be left with no businesses to pay taxes, an impoverished and untaxable populace and a national debt at the same level it is now. In essence, they (the Greek political elite) are selling their country's birthright for a mess of pottage.

There have been many comments in the MSM about the profligacy of the Greeks, and how they are to blame for the mess they now find themselves in, and there is much truth in those allegations. The blame, however, again lies with the political elite, who promised streets paved with gold, secure in the knowledge that when the shit hit the fan they personally would not be affected unduly. They will still have the big house in leafy Kiffissia with the Mercedes parked in the drive.

As for the man in the street, what was he to say when offered a generous welfare state, gold plated pensions etc.? No, thanks? All those Brit commenters heaping scorn on the Greeks for living beyond their means, would they have turned down the easy credit, early retirement packages and so on if offered? Of course not. Any working man would have grabbed it with both hands, wherever he is from. Who looks a gift-horse in the mouth?

Truly, I cry for Greece.

Default (now), and a return to the drachma would be a painful move, but probably not much more so than continuing on the current path. It would return sovereignty to the people of Greece, and allow them to build a functioning economy out of the ashes. The alternative is to become an impoverished vassal state of Germany with no future.