tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post4808583192320539641..comments2023-09-28T13:28:52.243+01:00Comments on Raedwald: Reform and Renewal - VotingRaedwaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-79607627809045996082019-01-06T13:28:43.141+00:002019-01-06T13:28:43.141+00:00"However, the shock of that 2015 result catal..."However, the shock of that 2015 result catalysed Cameron into enabling the 2016 referendum - so UKIP actually won it for us, after all"<br /><br />I have pointed this out many a time. Although the Greens and UKIP are an electoral failure under FPTP, if enough people vote for them, it nudges the big two parties in the chosen direction.Mark Wadsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07733511175178098449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-86717751456033069742019-01-06T11:17:06.252+00:002019-01-06T11:17:06.252+00:00Jack Ketch said: "In other words it was '...Jack Ketch said: "In other words it was 'possessed', which according to Raed 'England' has never desired to do".<br /><br />But not possessed by "England". Because the conquest was the other way. England was just one among many of the possessions of the foreign kings, dukes and barons who had acquired England by invasion as a cash cow.<br /><br />For example: Richard "Coeur-de-Lion" (names a bit of a giveaway), died 1199, probably couldn't speak English and apparently would have sold England if he could have found a buyer.<br /><br />Claiming that "England" possessed cities, land, dukedoms, etc, on the continent is as absurd as claiming Greece possessed Gaul simply because the Romans had conquered both.Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-46158716919609099252019-01-05T23:08:26.471+00:002019-01-05T23:08:26.471+00:00Disagree jack. -Raed
natürlich :) and natürlich...<i>Disagree jack.</i> -Raed<br /><br /> natürlich :) and natürlich I also disagree with much you wrote in your reply but I see no reason to take this thread further off topic. jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-83077729547845229912019-01-05T20:32:24.440+00:002019-01-05T20:32:24.440+00:00Disagree jack.
The colonial period barely lasted ...Disagree jack.<br /><br />The colonial period barely lasted 90 years from 1870 to 1960, and only happened when we had (a) Quinine prophylaxis (b) steam gunboats and (c) breech loading rifles. We were generally more eager to baptise our new subjects than to kill them. I'll need to reference it, but prior to that our casualties from disease often outnumbered the number of natives we killed. It wasn't high intensity warfare, it was low level attrition and utterly insignificant in comparison to the death and destruction that firstly Napoleon, then the Prussians brought to Europe. <br /><br />And yes, we fought both first and second wars as defensive reactions to German hostile intent.<br /><br />And no, the Dutch never invaded. They may have landed a few soldiers, but that's not invasion, is it? Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-47982759806884177672019-01-05T19:52:43.057+00:002019-01-05T19:52:43.057+00:00But for the past four centuries we've been ver...<i><br />But for the past four centuries we've been very well behaved. Unlike the French and Germans. </i>-Raed<br /><br />We've been reasonably well behaved in regards to Europe and pretty appalling just about everywhere else (although not as appalling perhaps as the French/Belgian and Germany Colonialists)-which I think was the <i>somewhat</i> valid point Etu was trying to make. <br /><br />Whether or not the Dutch successfully invaded us is one those questions that sane people leave to historians to debate (I seem to recall there is documentary evidence that armed Dutch soldiers were patrolling the streets of our fair capital, soiling its fabled golden pavements with their dirty clogs). Also your contention that "We have had to resort to warfare - when we are threatened, bombed, our ships attacked" ...did the Kaiser threaten to invade us in 1918? Were we <i>forced</i> to declare war on Nazi Germany because WE were under attack? (Two examples perhaps of that glorious British trait of doing the right thing for totally the wrong reasons).jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-90342579872795247662019-01-05T19:35:32.682+00:002019-01-05T19:35:32.682+00:00Jack - fair point. I concede.
But for the past f...Jack - fair point. I concede. <br /><br />But for the past four centuries we've been very well behaved. Unlike the French and Germans. Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-81067289503476480042019-01-05T19:24:55.846+00:002019-01-05T19:24:55.846+00:00Whilst I criticise Dr. North on a regular basis, h...Whilst I criticise Dr. North on a regular basis, he and Christopher Booker did write a good history of the EU... "The Great Deception".<br /><br />At the beginning of the book they cite the seeds of the EU as having been sown by the founders of the USSR, civil servants at the League of Nations (Monnet and Salter) were so impressed by the "achievements" at uniting the nations that comprised the USSR by Lenin and Stalin, that they thought that they would emulate that in western Europe. <br /><br />The major difference between the former ad the latter was that the USSR had already been an absolute monarchy, whilst the latter had been making attempts at empire building and continuously failing with much consequent bloodshed. So they decided that their plan should be executed by stealth rather than brute force. The final outcome would be the same though, with a politburo and five and ten year plans etc.. all controlled from the centre.<br /><br />So they drew up a plan, and although that plan seems to be falling apart, well... maybe fraying at the edges a bit, so far, the development of "the Project" has followed the plan almost implicitly since 1923, when Salter finalised it.Stephen Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16628822966183977715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-87462929008124262102019-01-05T19:16:50.282+00:002019-01-05T19:16:50.282+00:00it was just property owned by the same people who ...<i>it was just property owned by the same people who owned England</i><br /><br />In other words it was 'possessed', which according to Raed 'England' has never desired to do. We fought a century long war about keeping those bits of supposedly unwanted French Real Estate or who got which bits of France.<br /><br /><br />jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-45293906330440778802019-01-05T18:40:55.699+00:002019-01-05T18:40:55.699+00:00Oops, 300 years . . .Oops, 300 years . . .Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-317860840338103102019-01-05T18:38:38.029+00:002019-01-05T18:38:38.029+00:00Jack Ketch said: "Hmm those three lions on yo...Jack Ketch said: "Hmm those three lions on your rugby shirt mean what? Burghers of Calais?"<br /><br />There is a common view - held most strongly by Hollywood film makers - that England's first attempt at Empire was conquering bits of the continent.<br /><br />That such a travesty is an inversion of the truth passes them by. England was conquered <i>by</i> the Norman-French. Normandy, and land subsequently accreted by the Norman kings of England marrying French wives, was never "English", it was just property owned by the same people who owned England.<br /><br />Norman kings and barons did indeed use English peasants as cannon-fodder as they attempted to hold or expand their continental possessions. The English language was not officially re-instated for 200 years (Statute of Pleading, 1362), and Norman-French was still used up to the C16th.<br /><br />Calais was lost to the kings that owned England in 1558.<br /><br />Budgienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-78329170928125340532019-01-05T17:29:26.732+00:002019-01-05T17:29:26.732+00:00Etu, you have zero credibility.
Elkins wrote a b...Etu, you have zero credibility. <br /><br />Elkins wrote a book on the Mau-Mau rebellion - estimate 12,000 dead, black and white<br /><br />Johnson has written alsmost exclusively on what he calls 'the American Empire'<br /><br />You are so full of bullshit, falsity, fantasy, mendacity and self delusion that there could be no finer example to represent the same qualities exhibited by the EU. <br /><br />If you had any evidence to back your lies, you would know how to quote it - I've schooled you thoroughly in the previous post as to how to reference supporting evidence. <br /><br />Away with you, wankpuffin. Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-89283253894000749102019-01-05T16:12:54.449+00:002019-01-05T16:12:54.449+00:00Caroline Elkins and Chalmers Johnson amongst other...Caroline Elkins and Chalmers Johnson amongst others. He cites "a thousand-and-a-half million" deaths, rather than Harvard's 1.6 billion, however.<br /><br />But what's a hundred million dead between flag-wavers eh?<br /><br />But whatever, I don't think that the Mau Mau - who won their case - would describe this country as historically peaceable somehow. Do you?<br /><br />And what do peer-reviewed professors of history know, compared to that guy smoking and spitting outside BetFred of a Wednesday afternoon anyway?Etunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-45107689042637491172019-01-05T12:44:51.181+00:002019-01-05T12:44:51.181+00:00Not more of your spurious figures Etu - I've h...Not more of your spurious figures Etu - I've had to demolish every one of your numerical claims so far. OK then, where does your latest false claim come from? Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-27181698298455928212019-01-05T12:26:15.208+00:002019-01-05T12:26:15.208+00:00France and Germany are probably not the world'...France and Germany are probably not the world's bloodiest nations.<br /><br />Harvard University estimates that the British Empire, during its centuries, caused 1.6 billion - yes, billion - excess deaths.<br /><br />That's what our overseas aid is about - blood money.<br /><br />It makes WWII seem a breeze by comparison, doesn't it?<br /><br />My point about the 07/07 bombers was that Blair did NOT "let 'em in", incidentally. They were born here years before he took office.<br />Etunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-52952771632236543492019-01-05T12:22:48.108+00:002019-01-05T12:22:48.108+00:00'They've copied our statue!' he exclai...<i>'They've copied our statue!' he exclaimed </i>-Raed<br /><br />*SNORK* *LOL*<br /><br />"We <i>held</i> Calais and other French possessions until the 16th Century" (Really? That long? God knows why.), "wanted to invade, conquer, occupy or <i>possess</i> any part of Europe" but to be honest I was just pointing out that England wasn't quite the paragon of historical virtue you were making out. Take Northern Ireland for example. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-4711284651965656412019-01-05T12:02:52.553+00:002019-01-05T12:02:52.553+00:00Etu said Most of the people whom you deem "un...<br />Etu said <i>Most of the people whom you deem "unacceptable", or their forebears, come from the ex-British Empire though don't they?</i><br /><br />A typical ignorant reasoning from someone corrupted by leftist thought processing.<br /><br />The 'unacceptable' can come from anywhere. Criminals, kiddy-fiddlers, terrorists, anyone that comes here thinking they can abide by 'their rules' rather than ours etc. This isn't race-specific, this is individual-specific and applies to EVERYONE, without favor.<br /><br />Radders dismantles the remainder of your argument very succinctly and his description of the EU is precisely what those that voted Leave see in the EU and made that decision so easy.<br /><br /><i>The EU is the most enlightened, civilised project that this brutal, tragic, blood-drenched planet has ever seen.</i><br /><br />And so was the start of Communism - equality for all! Look how that turned out and <b>try</b> to see the (obvious) parallels the EU show.<br />Dave_Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-3851661284482936322019-01-05T11:33:16.326+00:002019-01-05T11:33:16.326+00:00Leopards. They're Leopards. Really.
And the ...Leopards. They're Leopards. Really. <br /><br />And the sovereign is still today the Duke of Normandy, though the Duchy has shrunk to just the Channel Islands. We held Calais and other French posessions until the 16th Century by virtue of the historic claims of William the Conqueror. We didn't invade them, though we had to chastise them from time to time ...<br /><br />I remember on a booze run to Calais a London chum saw the Rodin group next to the Marie there - and until then he was familiar only with the same sculpture next to St Stephen's tower on the Embankment. 'They've copied our statue!' he exclaimed Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-82002833984562523252019-01-05T11:17:44.610+00:002019-01-05T11:17:44.610+00:00Britsin, on the other hand, has never wanted to in...<i><br />Britsin, on the other hand, has never wanted to invade, conquer, occupy or possess any part of Europe</i> <br />-Raed<br /><br />Hmm those three lions on your rugby shirt mean what? Burghers of Calais?<br />jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-72462736128133602942019-01-05T10:39:57.314+00:002019-01-05T10:39:57.314+00:00Et tu
Yes, chaining the continents two most blood...Et tu<br /><br />Yes, chaining the continents two most bloody nations, France and Germany, together is something we need to maintain for Europe's security. Both had done nothing but foment war, horror, conquest, death and destruction for two centuries before we chained them together. <br /><br />Britsin, on the other hand, has never wanted to invade, conquer, occupy or possess any part of Europe. We are a peaceable people content to dwell on our islands independently and trade with every other nation on earth in peace and harmony. <br /><br />We have had to resort to warfare - at which we are good, having resisted conquest by both the French and Germans for a thousand years - when we are threatened, bombed, our ships attacked, usually by the French or Germans, but both the Spanish and Dutch have attacked us in the past. And failed.<br /><br />And the EU is the most antidemocratic, authoritarian, repressive, unscrupulous, expansionist and brutal hegemony in history - all of which it has proven, first in the subjugation of Greece, second with its attempts to foment war in Britain. We now know the EU's real character - and it is brutal and wholly antithetical to all we hold dear in these islands.<br /><br />We can't leave soon enough. Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-16740798495724765952019-01-05T10:24:55.201+00:002019-01-05T10:24:55.201+00:00Et tu Brute.
Et tu Brute.<br /><br /><br />Anon 2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-46421972578729260232019-01-05T10:15:38.925+00:002019-01-05T10:15:38.925+00:00The EU is the most enlightened, civilised project ...The EU is the most enlightened, civilised project that this brutal, tragic, blood-drenched planet has ever seen.<br /><br />Yes, the English are historically a warfaring nation, like many others.<br /><br />Perhaps seeing twenty-eight nations living together in friendship threatens the identity of some.<br /><br />I am glad that I am not one of them.<br /><br />Incidentally, I came with nothing, from a very modest family, but am now comfortable, of independent means, and by my efforts alone.Etunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-66272394520019609662019-01-05T08:02:43.450+00:002019-01-05T08:02:43.450+00:00Plenty of nut-jobs sitting there - particularly on...<i>Plenty of nut-jobs sitting there - particularly on the Labour benches at the moment</i>-DeeDee<br /><br />Touche! jack ketchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07921268825653615322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-43365498755237848212019-01-05T07:36:11.850+00:002019-01-05T07:36:11.850+00:00@Jack Ketch. "The British way of doing thing...@Jack Ketch. "The British way of doing things may not be very good at getting people 'in' but it sure as hell does a sterling job at keeping the nutjobs out."<br /><br />Does it? Taken a long hard look at the make-up of Parliament recently. Plenty of nut-jobs sitting there - particularly on the Labour benches at the moment - and effectively irremovable.DeeDee99https://www.blogger.com/profile/06753473473887381622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-63574159667333484162019-01-05T06:52:58.837+00:002019-01-05T06:52:58.837+00:00Etu, you're arguing with emotion in grief at y...Etu, you're arguing with emotion in grief at your sense of entitlement having been offended; your *rights* to stuff is being curtailed, you think. But you're mistaken. <br /><br />The EU doesn't give you free healthcare. It just allows you to continue to enjoy the free healthcare the UK provides, and then recharges the UK for the treatment you receive. And in many cases this ceases when UK citizens become residents.<br /><br />Membership of the EU doesn't allow travel. We were travelling abroad long before the EU without visas, and will continue to do so in the future.<br /><br />Again, entitlement to local benefits, where they exist, is not something exclusive to the EU, but the cost of paying UK benefits to EU citizens is a strain on British taxpayers; a school cleaner on minimum wage in London is paying for the Child benefit enjoyed by thousands of mums in Poland. <br /><br />To be frank, I've often heard your rather selfish and self-centred whine from young Brits, mainly privileged and educated young Brits, those with a huge sense of entitlement, who see Brexit solely in terms of curtailing their free stuff. UK taxpayers paid through the nose for all those Erasmus jollies, all those Uni schemes, those EU paid-for railcards. £10 billion a year. <br /><br />After Brexit you can still travel, work, reside, retire and whatever in Europe just as before. Just not at the poor taxpayer's cost. So what's wrong with personal responsiblity? Raedwaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11699610899843349594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1537213245172078183.post-82435845052437025102019-01-04T22:18:50.079+00:002019-01-04T22:18:50.079+00:00Just remind us of the ukip share of the vote in 20...Just remind us of the ukip share of the vote in 2017?<br /><br />1.8%, wasn't it?<br /><br />No, UK people will not be treated as equals in EU countries after it leaves, re healthcare, benefits entitlements etc. right to work and to attend educational institutions, just for starters.<br /><br />Most of the people whom you deem "unacceptable", or their forebears, come from the ex-British Empire though don't they?<br /><br />Those who took 55 fine lives on LT in 2007 were born here, and at school in Dewsbury, Sparkbrook and Luton before Blair was even PM too. They were British, not from the EU.<br /><br />What difference does your lifetime's triumph make to that? Etunoreply@blogger.com