Many of us will have grown up with the BAOR - either as serving soldiers or like myself as army brats. There was a time when Gütersloh, Fallingbostel or Sennelager were more familiar to us than Slough, Reading or Peterborough. The BBC even had a forces radio programme, and knowing at least half a dozen BFPO numbers was par for the course. Well, BAOR disappeared without notice in 1994. The 25,000 remaining troops in Germany became BFG, now down to about 4,000 and scheduled to pull out completely by 2020, almost exactly in line with Brexit.
The change came with the fall of the wall in 1989. Before then, our lads were to play a vital role in forming a heroic but utterly pointless sacrifice in holding up the Soviet advance through Germany to France for about 72 hours. Then we all thought it an essential sacrifice. Now we wonder, why bother? Perhaps France and Germany would be better off under Russian rule. Why shed British blood in their defence?
When Trump abstained from the traditional annual G7 offering of American blood in Germany's defence last week he too must have felt the same. Germany has been financially raping Europe for thirty years, sitting on a vast pile of gold as she threatens, bullies and manoeuvres others to pay for everything, like some nightmare dining partner endlessly disputing the division of the restaurant bill.
Turkey is now a Salafist terrorist nation and belongs nowhere near NATO. In bullying the Netherlands into ignoring the veto of the Dutch people and extending full EU privileges to Ukraine, the EU has just given Putin another poke with a sharp stick. The UK will find it hard to mobilise even 6,500 troops - we need a standing army of 100,000 to put an adequate force in the field. Germany's armed forces are to all purposes entirely useless. Amidst the ruins of NATO (and oh yes it's now finished in all but name*) there's only France to defend the EU.
Merkel may gamble that she'll get away with it, and perhaps she will. But without British and American wealth and blood to pay for it. We're done.
*Also proving the rule that corporations are most likely to fail at the point at which they open a spanking glossy new multi billion dollar HQ
20 comments:
The wonder is that our government, chosen through that parody of democracy commonly known as "representative", we have been presented by our "representers" as being quite happy to accept this total rear end rogering.
And so it goes...
A further wonder is that when these "representatives" are faced with a genuine representative (Trump) they all to a man scream that he is dangerous or mad.
I would venture that he might be less than "diplomatic", but I think that I have seen enough of diplomacy for the last 50 years, to know that it is a non skill, it basically means selling your granny for a junket at the "top table" and I am sick of it.
right-writes
If Trump does pull out of the Paris Agreement too, then the EU will be left holding onto the AGW chimera all by themselves. By confirming their commitment to it at the G7, they have hobbled themselves in any bilateral trade discussions with the US. None of the EU leaders have had the foresight to realise that, by waiting until they did so, Trump gave them enough rope to bind themselves. He will use that to gain a significant advantage in any trade talks as they will have at least one hand tied to Paris. His book was not called the Art of the Deal for nothing.
Trump also called out the Germans on their trade surplus with the US as "bad, very bad" so I expect there will be even more squealing when the contents of Merkel's piggy bank starts to dwindle. At some point Germany's car manufacturers may well put even more pressure on her when two of their markets are clearly going to be under threat. As usual money talks.
I didn't grow up with the BAOR Radders as I joined the RN in the very early 70's, and the Submarine service in the mid 70's. Our task then was to prevent the incursion of Russia's submarines into the Atlantic; to stop them sinking US transports of men and materiel to Europe - in short to supply the BAOR and others in the defence of Western Europe. Looking back, I often wonder why I gave up 22 years of my life for that. What was the point?
Germany effectively stopped playing the NATO game back in 1989, they had a very backward Eastern Germany to contend with and all the problems that go with it. Having now realised that economic power was more effective and less destructive than war, they have pretty much achieved long standing German foreign policy a la Bismarck. They have still to realise their eastern ambitions, which is why using the EU as a proxy so appeals to them.
Merkel's remark that the US and Britain can longer be relied upon is, in it's way, quite true, but it sticks in the craw when you bear in mind the Berlin Airlift and the hard work we carried out to get Germany back on it's feet post 1945. Her comment is effectively saying that Britain and the US are no longer welcome in Europe and we can do this ourselves (they have overestimated their power as usual)
It's at this point where I may part company with some of you as regards our own Foreign policy, especially our relationships with European countries. English and later British foreign policy since at least Elizabeth I, has been to prevent any one country in Europe having control of the continent, at that time, and up until now that has meant primarily military might. Personally I think it's time we just left Europe to it, all our problems since 1600, with a few exceptions here and there, have been created in or caused by a European power. This is not to say that we shouldn't sow as much trouble and dissent as possible - using countries like Holland, the Visegrad states and Scandanavia to do our bidding. It is after all in their interest.
Frankly we have much more in common with the Anglosphere, and whilst I hate accepting 2nd place to the Americans, one has to accept what is funnily enough a German word - RealPolitik. The US IS the only superpower and being allied with them is better than NOT being allied with them. Two can play the economic game, and we've had much more practice at it. This is why Brexit is such good news for us, because, finally unshackled from the EU corpse we can fully realise our potential.
"But without British and American wealth and blood to pay for it. We're done. "
Russia doesn't need to be our enemy.
Russia has extremely large natural oil and gas reserves.
Which is worse? Being held ransom by Russia, or being held ransom by Saudi Arabia?
Frankly, we'd do better strengthening our relations with Russia, switching our oil purchases from SA to Russia, and in the mean time, build a brand spanking new fleet of Thorium cycle nuclear reactors - to make us energy independent twenty five years from now.
Otherwise yes, we're done!
"...the rule that corporations are most likely to fail at the point at which they open a spanking glossy new multi billion dollar HQ."
A point also made by C Northcote Parkinson, as I recall:
"Perfection of planning is a symptom of decay. During a period of exciting discovery or progress, there is no time to plan the perfect headquarters."
Two-way Family Favourites on a Sunday mid-day, now that takes me back!
(by the way your captcha pictures are a bugger....or else I need new glasses)
If, after Stalin died we had done a deal with the Soviets we would not have had the Cold War. The trouble was in the military and financial worlds too many people had interests in keeping it going.
Raedwald said:
'Many of us will have grown up with the BAOR - either as serving soldiers or like myself as army brats.'
Aye, quite a few would have had fathers serve in places like Bergen-Hohne. My dad was there a couple of years before NATO was founded, serving with the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars - which is now the Queen's Royal Hussars. It should be remembered that this was the second occupation of the Rhineland, the first being 1919-1929.
As a cabbage head (29 Commando RA) I only got to West Germany on the back of exercises with units like the Honourable Artillery Company and 4/73 Battery RA - the stationing of commando units in the Weimar Republic was verboten under the constitution). I did once visit Bergen-Belsen which is not something you forget.
Steve
I've said it here before, the Russian Bear just wants to slumber in peace. The EU's expansionist agenda eastwards is forever poking the slumbering Russian bear. Eventually the Russian bear will awake and bite back, and hard. When that happens I don't want precious British and American blood spilt defending another European war. We did it twice in the 20th Century, and no never again. Let Europe through the EU defend itself.
NATO IS OBSOLETE. Good Luck Europe, you're going to need it.
It's a lonely say when I find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with Donald Trump but calling Merkel out on this was a move of near brilliance.
And Merkel's response to it proves she's been caught raiding the EU cookie jar and doesn't like it being pointed out for everyone to see. And unlike your pointing it out continually in your charming blog sir, Trump's comments are pretty pucblic being in front of the world's press.
Not that Merkel's pets Juncker and Tusk will take her to task over it... they are as much enablers of these NATO underpayers as Merkel and Hollande have been.
I don't think the Russian Bear just wants to slumber in peace. I think it wants its European empire back -- the Baltic states, Poland, Hungary, etc.
This is so that it can regain the respect of the world.
Imperialists are a menace.
Don Cox
DP111..
Germany has been having a good time at our expense. Doesn’t pay fair share for defence, and makes sure that all the heavy lifting and blood is from the America and us. And when questioned, states that Germany does not dictate EU policy.
On RT yesterday, a German spokesman stated, that Germany was tired of hosting the American base in Ramstein . He should be grateful that America was there in 1945 to halt Stalin. If not, Germany would still be paying for what they did to Russia. They would be a poor ramshackled country in tutelage to the USSR. And the USSR would still be a going concern.
There is nothing Germany can do to repay that debt to the USA, as they never deserved that gift in the first place. Far from it.
I wonder why we buy any stuff from Germany. Why do we have to shop at Lidl or Aldi. We have better supermarkets, and far better customer care.
Who gives a fuck................
In answer to Anonymous, I buy at Lidl because their products are good and in many cases as much as 20% cheaper than Sainsbury where I do thenrestmofmmy shopping. And despite being much cheaper, the quality is just as good. I dont buy German cars or much else.
That's right, they won't pay, the Donald knows that, hence his agenda is furthered.
eutruth.info eutruth.org.uk
I spent Jan 1983 - Dec 1985 at RAF Laarbruch. We were on exercise at least 4 days of every month. As far as I could see, being near the Dutch border meant we had time to finish our egg banjos before we tactically nuked the incoming Soviet hordes.
On a, slightly, more serious note, I agree with the comment from APL @ 1 Jun 17 08.58. Lets get down to business with Russia and let the arabs disappear back into nomadic obscurity.
Wrong, wrong & not even wrong.
Agree that it is v unlikely that Germany will pay more for NATO, but, if Putin makes a land-grab in Estonia / Latvia / Lithuania ... then circumstances will change & rapidly.
Mutti Merkel has actually got a good thinking-head on, unlike many other politicos of any nation ....
I see the GW deniers & crawlers to Donaldo Trumpolini are out if farce or do I mean force?
Fuck off, the lot of you, you are both stupid & uneducated - just like Pence, in fact.
I think ultimately BAOR was not in OUR strategic interests. Historically, Great Britain has been best served by a maritime strategy, the RN supporting global trade with the British Army being a force deployed to further our interests in, ideally, a sort, sharp and limited campaign. It is pertinent to ask what did deploying and maintaining a costly land and air force actually gain Great Britain. The RAF still believes itself a strategic bombing force despite clear evidence to the contrary (little things like only shooting down 1 enemy aircraft since 1945...) The only other benefit was that the perceived commitment acted like the Washington Treaty and encouraged at least some defence spending.
Raedwald said:
'Many of us will have grown up with the BAOR - either as serving soldiers or like myself as army brats.'
Aye, quite a few would have had fathers serve in places like Bergen-Hohne. My dad was there a couple of years before NATO was founded, serving with the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars - which is now the Queen's Royal Hussars. It should be remembered that this was the second occupation of the Rhineland, the first being 1919-1929.
As a cabbage head (29 Commando RA) I only got to West Germany on the back of exercises with units like the Honourable Artillery Company and 4/73 Battery RA - the stationing of commando units in the Weimar Republic was verboten under the constitution). I did once visit Bergen-Belsen which is not something you forget.
Steve
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