Thay have all, finally, agreed to a general election.
To the dismay of his MPs and the probable fury of the Noncefinder-General Mr Watson, who hid away when the vote was taken, Corbyn has caved in to the people's demands for a general election. He had little choice. With the LibDems and the SNP ready to trigger an election, it would not have been a good look for Labour to have opposed this and lost. Shortly after Labour's humiliation in parliament, Corbyn did a little-girl skippy dance down the carpeted steps of the palace for his Instagram followers, but his glum, drawn face gave the lie to his Prozac-cheerful words. Helping elect Corbyn to the Labour leadership was the best £3 I have ever spent.
So we're off. In a day or two the short campaign will start in earnest and everyone who wants all MPs to lose their jobs will have their wish; they all cease being MPs when parliament is dissolved. Many will not return. I suspect there will be many Portillo moments on election night. It is the last we will see of Grieve, Letwin, Soubry and the other wreckers, and worth it for that alone.
Both the Labour Party and my own party I suspect will try their hardest to pretend this is a normal election, fought on the grounds of an end to austerity and a new spend bonanza for the entire public sector funded by Wonga for Labour and a war on crime with increased police and prison spending, plus a cash boost for the NHS from the Conservatives. Voters, I think, won't be fooled. This will be the Brexit election, and each of the parties' narratives on Brexit will be critical - currently they go something like
Conservatives - Pro Brexit; the people's party led by the people's Prime Minister delivering the people's choice
LibDems - Will not accept withdrawal from the EU whatever the people say or how they vote, and however illiberal and anti-democratic this appears
Brexit - Standing for a no-deal Brexit and, er, that's it really
Labour - Anti-Brexit in London and the metropolitan areas, equivocal in Wales and the North. Official policy is to campaign for a Blair Referendum, negotiate with the EU then stick their tongues out and run away and revoke Article 50. Or something. No-one actually knows.
Of course this has utterly buggered all the pollsters' models and predictions. The telly Swingometer will have to be 3D. They won't have a clue how the most important election since the war will pan out. Anything is possible.
Of course I've avoided the matter of how TBP and the Conservatives interact; we just don't know. Personally I favour an election pact, but the Prime Minister has ruled this out. If by standing against eachother, the parties split the pro-Brexit vote and Corbyn and the Libdems win, neither Farage or Boris will ever be forgiven and it will destroy both TBP and the Conservative Party. I'm waiting for CCHQ to indicate how they intend to go.
Housekeeping
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It's a good time to re-state comment guidelines. Your comments on the issues in the posts may be as robust as you like short of defamation or illegality but link-dumping and trying to hijack posts for election prop will earn deletion - as will crude insults and slurs directed at me.
Right. That's all. Carry on.
42 comments:
You are unfair to the Brexit Party.
Of course their major policy is a Clean Break, but there is a raft of other policies. Cancelling HS2 and changing the overseas aid budget afe just two prominent ones.
James Strong
The Tories are definitely the lesser evil among mainstream parties and there is no torture known to man that would make me vote commie or limp dump.
For me it's tory or brexit party and I will consider it solely on the basis of how to get a proper brexit.
I need to look at who will be standing where I am to best work out how to vote.
It is a Brexit election you are absolutely correct. What remainiacs have done in their spite and sheer desperation the last four years will not be easy to repair.
This if for the older readers ....
Corbyn's actions remind me of those British Lelyand shop stewards running to the front of a walk-out so that they could be seen to be leading it but in reality they had no clue what was gpig on./
Nicely put!
Red Robbo, remember him, and then there was the ayatollah hogmanay!
Alas, voting Conservative means ratifying Mrs May's appalling agreement, as tweaked by Mr Johnson to put a border through the UK at the behest of an inimical foreign power. It also means accepting the new Political Declaration, with its "level playing field" adjudicated upon by that inimical foreign power's courts.
A pact with the Brexit Party does not help the Conservative Party, since a seat won by the former is a loss to the latter. It is more straightforward for the Conservative Party to lose that seat itself. Doing so has the added advantage of excluding the Brexit Party from Parliament.
I shall vote for the Brexit Party if it puts up a candidate here. If it does not, I'll vote for an independent. If there isn't one of those, I'll spoil my ballot paper by putting an X against every candidate.
Better the Brexit Party than one of the EU's poodle parties.
If Mr. Johnson really wanted the UK to leave the EU on 31/10, he had the opportunity during the last couple of days.
I can only assume that since he didn't take us out, that he is as honest about LEAVING as his tory predecessor. In short, he is a remainer.
That being the case there is only one choice if you unambiguously want to leave the EU but to vote for the only party that stands for leaving the EU.
The Brexit Party.
As for policy, it looks a bit thin at the momemnt since all the policies adopted by Cummings so far have been Brexit Party policies. Fortunately they are not stupid enough to advertise them all, just enough to let him hang himself.
Frankly, the less the media mention the Brexit Party, the better our chances of making an impact.
Just wondering whether memories of the voters can recall 2016, 2017 and the leadership elections of 2016 and 2019?
Those memories should be imprinted, including dying in ditches.
But mainly, not leaving when HE had the chance, is VERY revealing.
I'm really on the horns of a dilemma now, as much as I welcome a General Election. The Johnson version of the Withdrawal agreement is as unpalatable as May's. I truly believe the only way out is the cleanest of clean Brexits, with no traces left behind; but if I vote TBP will that contribute to Corbyn, Swinson and Sturgeon grabbing the levers of power? If I vote Conservative, will we simply be back in the EU by default within 5 years, obliged to adopt the euro and conttribute to the EU Army? Has anyone seen and taken on board what the EU has done to the (proudly independent, neutral, wealthy, non-EU) Swiss people recently? Switzerland is now an EU satrap, in effect; that fate awaits us.
There's treason at work here, delivering the country to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (West Eurasian Branch).
@formertory:
No need for you to balance on that horn.
The only Tory that the Brexit Party threatens is the remainer tory. Their real target is the Labour Party, so a vote for that party will make Corbyn less likely, rather than more.
My hope is that people will understand, through the use of short term memory, that the Tory Party is not only a remainer party, it is the architect of EEC/EU membership and what is more the progenitor of the single market.
It is possibly the greatest success of the tory party that its remainer credentials have always been on display, but always misunderstood, presumably by design?
How many times do I have to say that there is no such thing as the 'cleanest of clean' brexits ?
We all know that the current leaving deal is very poor, but over the next 10 years we have the opportunity to shape our EU relationship as we wish.
Brexit is just the start, not the finish.
The Brexit Party should consider offering the electorate that any of their MPs who are elected at this forthcoming GE will resign their seats and offer themselves for re-election once we have left the EU.
This would make sense given their main policy and reason for election is to facilitate our leaving the EU.
Also I believe this would give more electors confidence to vote for them as their constituents could then go back to voting in the subsequent by election in their “normal” way on non-Brexit issues if they so wished.
Although BJ’s “deal” is a terrible one it does at least no longer contain the backstop – which is why the remainers consider it worse that Mrs. May’s as her treaty would have meant us effectively remaining in the EU’s SM/CU with no lawful exit (AG’s analysis).
But however bad is BJ’s deal, full EU membership is even worse as it is complete colonial status with the added disadvantage that our tax money will continue to be used by the EU to corrupt our MPs, civil service, corporates, educational establishments, judiciary, quangos etc..
And it will be easier to continue the fight for our freedom from outside of the existing EU treaties.
As others have said, Brexit is a process not an event and we have to start somewhere.
If Johnson is too dumb to do a deal LEAVE UK is doing a website for tactical voting --it will soon be up.
VOTE TACTICALLY.
I have zero love for the Tories but vote to keep their seats and vote TBP in formerly safe Labour seats--now no such thing.
DO NOT VOTE TO GET REVENGE ON THE TORIES. A large part of the Tory hierarchy hates Brexit. Do not think you are punishing them by splitting the vote.
We can settle with BlueLabour once we are OUT.
BREXIT is what matters.
So I wonder does Dadad believe that the three and a half years since the referendum have been simple and straightforward?
I only ask, because it is an example of what happens when the demos make a democratic decision to break a treaty, namely the treaty of Rome.
The EU have knocked up a special treaty to replace the old treaty, and you think that there will be an appetite to break the Selmayr/Maybot/Johnson treaty, in a couple of years time.
No Chance, it is NOW or NEVER.
" Conservatives - Pro Brexit; the people's party led by the people's Prime Minister delivering the people's choice "
FFS I don't even know how you can say that without laughing.
They are Pro a sham fake Brexit.
They are not the peoples party.
They took us into this quagmire in the first place.
They have spent 3+ years ignoring the peoples vote.
They first introduced the fallacy that we needed a deal.
They are not delivering the peoples choice.
The people DID NOT VOTE FOR ANY SORT OF DEAL.
The peoples choice was to leave, period.
LEAVE,look that word up in a dictionary.
Toast The Tories Vote TBP
To all TBP-on principle-typEs. What good will your principles do for your kids conscripted into the EU Army because you split the votes? It will be of zero use if TBP takes the most second places ever. If the EU crawlers win they will ensure that there will be no escape from the EU--ever.
VOTE TACTICALLY AND PUNISH THE TORY HIERARCHY LATER. THEY WANT YOU TO LOSE BREXIT. DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT.
That's why, shite though it may be, I for one can live with it.
Brexit is a process that is just beginning, as is the disintegration of the EU. The former will be messy and difficult. The latter will result in who knows what.
Yes, it's hard to call how this will unfold.
One thing though, which intrigues me among several these days, is why is there such apparent terror in some places at the thought of a Labour majority? I mean, if it would be as inept as its detractors claim, then it would finish the party for the foreseeable, surely?
Is it rather, because the long-suffering ordinary folk might find that they actually quite liked some of this socialism stuff?
It would be hard to put that genie back in the bottle, wouldn't it?
Because it isn't labour. It's a bunch of lunatic hard line communists and Cliff knows what else using the name.
There are always those who like socialism (if you must use that label). Typically not those who work or pay taxes
Unfortunately we in Scotland are likely to see our paltry number of Tory MP's go down and the horrid probability some will switch to SNP.
They're a pain in the gonads in Westminster and an oppressive blanket in Scotland. A cheery Sturgeon is a loathsome sight.
However I will take some pleasure in seeing which party wins in Bercrow's seat. The dwarf's gotta go.
I'm very confused after hearing both Ken Clarke and now Michael Heseltine saying the Conservative Party has become 'right-wing'? Did I miss something or, as I suspected, has this party indeed spent the last 30 years running interference for corporate communists? Or are they just accidental Globalists like the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties? We know the Greens are communists but how many more of those are there? Nigel's lot are probably the only party left that anyone over 50 would recognise as right-wing. Where's the balance gone? Same over the pond: Hard left Democrats and RINO anti-Trump deadbeats. If we don't recalibrate the one-party state is but one generation away.
Steve
" Is it rather, because the long-suffering ordinary folk might find that they actually quite liked some of this socialism stuff? "
Maybe you should put that question to the Russians who experienced it unmasked, some of them liked it so much they got themselves shot trying to escape the then USSR.
I can't remember any person risking their lives to flee from a capitalist country to a socialist one? (Or a Christian to a Muslim one as well).
Correct me if i'm wrong. Trailers full of British people being smuggled into Venezuela or Cuba or East Germany in the 1970's?
Jaded
So Boris has what he wanted.
An election putting him in charge for 5 years.
Priority 1. Boris.
Priority 2. The useless tory party.
Priority 3. Amnesty for illegals.
Leaving the EU. Somewhere much later, if ever.
Yet another election where the tories can gull their supporters to vote for more of the same.
" Is it rather, because the long-suffering ordinary folk might find that they actually quite liked *some* of this socialism stuff? "
Ask the mouse if it liked its first bite at the cheese, don't bother asking about the second bite though, by that time the trap had sprung and broke its neck.
Dadad you contradict yourself: of course there is (was) the possibility of the cleanest of clean Brexits. It was about 3 years ago. As you THEN rightly go on to say, the process starts.
Quite why you feel the need to say "How many times do I have to say..." when most other people have been saying something similar is a mystery.
If I (and others obviously) vote TBP then likely the LDs will win. I like my very pro Brexit (and pro-active) CON MP, however, CON need to be sensible to win my vote back.
@mikebravo: Tories "gull their voters" - meaning, drop splats on them from a great height?
The Tories are trying to push through the Remain Treaty he is calling Brexit. Voting Tory this time is to vote Remain.
Sackerson.
I had not thought of that.
It could mean thet they drop splats and their allways willing to be fooled followers open their mouths to catch the offerings1
Like others, I laugh at the suggestion that the Tories will deliver a Brexit of any worth.
A vote for TBP isn't a wasted vote as many would claim. TBP and the Tories claim to offer the same Brexit solution (although the Tory version isn't Brexit by any definition a Leave voter would recognise) however a Tory/BP coalition would certainly focus Tory minds in the right direction......
I do, however, foresee a Labour/LibDem/SNP coalition as a likely outcome if only to see Brexit off completely - then cue the riots.
There isn't going to be a race for FPTP as the system currently works due to the lack of Party issues being prominent - it's entirely Brexit this time around - an outright win by any Party is imho an impossible task. Coalition will be the result so vote TBP to make a Tory/BP coalition one the Tories can't wriggle out of.
It will be interesting how TBP play this election. Do they campaign all seats alongside the Conservatives and split the Brexit vote and risk a Lib-Dem or Labour majority, or do they unilaterally leave the Tories alone and target Brexit-Majority Labour and Lib-Dem seats?
Leaving the Tories alone risks TBP of being labelled as the faux-tory party, so they would have to put up some good working-class candidates in the Northern seats when contesting Labour, not the usual middle-class suspects we've seen as TBP candidates in the Euro elections.
With good, unique, working-class candidates TBP could at least differentiate themselves from the usual nepotistic selections you get from Labour in Northern safe seats.
But certainly this will be an election worth watching!
JPM: I lived through unfettered Socialism in the 1970s it was so fantastic it brought forth Margaret Thatcher and kept her in power for several years, such was the horror of the late 70's socialist experiment.
As a socialist, be very careful what you wish for. The uninhibited, unfettered variety nearly brought this country to it's knees as it does in every other country it's been tried.
Never again do I want an almost bankrupt country going cap in hand to the IMF to borrow money just so we can pay the bills, keep the lights on, the hospitals running and the rubbish collected.
And Labour say they will save the NHS... the last time rampant socialism was tried, the NHS could barely function.
@Mark The Skint Sailor
"...or do they unilaterally leave the Tories alone and target Brexit-Majority Labour and Lib-Dem seats?"
If we are being pragmatic and avoid voting tribally, then the TBP should target the Labour and LibDem seats. This way they will gain some seats, possibly even a reasonable number of seats, enough to establish a foothold in Parliament and keep the Tories honest. They are unlikely to get enough seats to be a dominant force in the next Parliament, but they could set the foundations for being so for the Parliament after that.
Good luck, tho', innit to be splatted?
We have an excellent local Tory MP. Huge maj both last elections. So I will probably vote BxP, as a protest, unless it looks dodgy.
I still have NO clue why May did not start saying. "No Deal. We're gone in 2 years. Let us know if you think you have anything to offer". By the time the baton passed to Boris, she - hopeless, shut off pathetic leader - had thrown away the amjority he would have had to do that.
So here we are. 64 when I voted, 68 now. Still waiting. I guess I'd accept the current deal as long as he wins a large enough maj to not to have th please the other parties. And as someone noted above, the EU is in a shocking state economically, and the Euro is FUBAR. Whatever they do will only make things worse. Stuffed.
So I'd like to be out as out is possible. Else they'll screw us at the bailout.
Hey ho.
F**k to johnson and his surrender deal Mk II.
There's only one party to vote for = TBP.
A lot of good comments today, and it is gratifying to see that most have figured out that the Conmen party are selling an utterly useless DisMay "negotiated" agreement.
Raedwald seems to think that the Brexit Party lack of a manifesto is a bad thing, as if a laser sharp focus on the primary issue is a bad thing. Meanwhile the conmen as usual want to waste another fortune on a socialist agenda. Vote BluLiebour.
The conmen start the campaign with a purported 12 point lead similar to DisMays advantage last time, lets see how they fritter that away. If they contest obviously hopeless constituencies in the Northern pro-Brexit communities I hope they are giving the thrashing they richly deserve.
@cascadian:
The Brexit Party have published a number of proposals for future discussion (policies), and each one has immediately been adopted by the CONservative Party, apart from one...
Leaving without signing a document agreeing to become a colony of the nighty EU. The party seems absolutely intent on slave state status, not that I can see why that would be good, even for them.
So I think they can be excused for keeping their powder dry, both in regard to other ideas and also regarding campaign tactics.
Mark The Skint Sailor @ 15:31 :
TBP should not only select candidates suitable for their constituencies but for non-Brexit issues they should do as the Lib Dems have always done and promote policies in tune with their constituencies even if they are inconsistent with the leader’s policies and with other TBP candidates elsewhere.
Official policy is to campaign for a Blair Referendum, negotiate with the EU then stick their tongues out and run away and revoke Article 50. Or something. No-one actually knows.
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It's a safe bet that Labour will set a world record for lies per second.
Lies/second will be won by the media and the pollsters.
Trumps election and our own last GE showed how out of touch all the pollsters were (still are).
Currently the only party I actually believe a spoken word from is TBP - listen to the delegates at their various public meetings and see how ambitious they are and how encouraged their audience are. It makes the usual party conferences pale into insignificance.
If the candidates of TBP are as energised as their audience then I don't hold out much hope for anyone they stand against.
Prepare for a media onslaught against TBP - they are the biggest threat to not just the GE and Brexit but the whole 'system' - and we can all agree that the system needs radical change.
TBP may be 'it'.
r-writes I agree, you state the case more lucidly than I.
Having been fooled into voting Conservative in 2017 against my better judgement in the forlorn hope Sharisa May would enact the will of the people I won't be fooled again.
Before that lapse of judgement I last voted Tory in '92 for the useless grey man Major mainly to keep the gurning Welsh windbag out of no. 10. Major's appalling administration left a golden economy due to his policy of shadowing the DMark in the ERM being destroyed, not his brilliance. His betrayal by ramming the Maastricht agreement through parliament, a document the arrogant duffer Clarke couldn't be bothered to study, made me vow to never vote Tory again.
I will stick to my resolve now, the Tories are beyond redemption, they need to be totally destroyed, along with the other legacy parties. I don't hold out much hope for that, most voters will continue to vote tribally I've no doubt and the vast amount of electoral fraud that now takes place, totally ignored by the useless Tories, means Liebour will probably do adequately. I expect that come Friday 13th. December - what an auspicious day - we'll be pretty much where we are now.
Well it's the 31st is he dead in a ditch yet?
Nah thought not.
Another Con-trick.
@RAC
Still got 23 hours 24 minutes to go.....
It doesn't have to be a ditch though, does it? Is that a hard and fast rule?
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