In return, we assert those rights on behalf of the people of Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands. And also, with greater finesse, for the people of Northern Ireland, a falling majority of whom wish to remain part of the UK.
Indeed, the West was very much in favour of self-determination until the fall of the Wall, when strangely there was a shift towards the idea of 'territorial integrity' trumping self-determination. Oh sure we believe in self-determination, said the EU, except when territorial integrity is more important. So for Western Ukraine, self-determination but for Crimea, territorial integrity. The EU's unelected officials love the new approach; it allows Imperial inconsistency. For an antidemocratic organisation that has fomented war and conflict in the Balkans, Ukraine and Baltic, which has encouraged the Spanish neo-fascists to provoke an armed incident in Gibraltar, it's therefore no surprise that the EU is wholly behind the neo-fascists in suppressing the people of Catalonia. Maybe Germany and France are even prepared to offer new Condor Legions to help the fascists.
Now the EU, an unelected empire renowned worldwide for foreign policy incompetence, for creating division and for fomenting conflict, is blundering clumsily, foolishly and maliciously into Northern Ireland. The province is a matter for the British and Irish governments alone, and for the people of the province alone to determine. We can simply not allow the EU to destroy the carefully wrought peace. If they try to re-ignite armed conflict there, we must drop all defence and intelligence co-operation immediately, and walk away from Brexit talks.
The anti-democratic nomenklatura in Brussels must learn one lesson - the power of the ballot box, whether in Catalonia or anywhere else.
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| Catalan independence supporter wounded by EU police today |
25 comments:
Radders there is no plurality of catalans who want independence, this has been shown by most opinion polls. However, the I understand from friends there that most of these will not vote today to avoid lending any credibility to this absurd and sad farago.
Neither side has covered itself with glory, and it has reached a point now where a good end is difficult to predict.
So allow the vote, there will be stonking remain victory.
The only reason for spain to deny a vote is because it knows it wouldnt like the result
Brussels must learn one lesson - the power of the ballot box
Lesson already learned - hence their avoidance of it at all costs.
I doubt whether the EU have ever had a majority in favour of anything they have offered or imposed - such 'support' as they are shown to have being a fabrication of rigged polls and insider manipulation of news outlets.
Opposition to the EU has come from the determination of people to have their say led, as usual, by the UK and, despite the potential for the Catalan independence vote to be lost, the EU STILL fear even the prospect of a referendum.
The Spanish/EU Government approach to the referendum is very, very telling and will have repercussions across the rest of Europe along the lines of 'what have they to fear?'.... the blinkers are coming off rapidly.
Looking at this, I ask the question - do we wish to see Scotland entirely separate under Krankie, an enemy on the border, or do we support the Union?
If Scotland had voted yes I would say good riddance build a wall, same goes for wales too if they feel that way. If a majority wants out why keep those who will be unwilling.
"Looking at this, I ask the question - do we wish to see Scotland entirely separate under Krankie, an enemy on the border, or do we support the Union?"
After much thought, I hope the Scots go their own way.. They're like a sulky teenager constantly blaming dad for their ills. They need to move out of the house and grow up.
But that's not what the SNP is about. They want power but not the responsibility - hence I think secretly they were overjoyed they lost the Independence vote....
Budapest , 1956 !!
Re Scotland.
I'd remind those that post derogatory comments about the 'Scottish people' that they voted to REMAIN part of the UK and would likely also do the same should another referendum be held.
There is no appetite for independence despite SNP rhetoric and media propaganda and knee-jerk comments assuming the opposite exposes you as gullible believers of fake news - useful idiots no less.
Dave_G - indeed.
If Spain had arranged a Catalan referendum a year or two ago, I'll bet Catalunya would have voted 'stay'. After this weekend, I think that majority will be severely eroded.
Driving from the airport into Barcelona one passes through a scrubby, sparse, undeveloped area that stretches for a kilometer or two beyond the city. Sometimes you will see little tents and fenced areas. This is where they are still recovering the bodies of those executed by Franco's regime - dragged out of their beds, taken to this barren scrubland, shot in the back of the head and hidden beneath a shallow cover of poor sandy soil. The bones and shreds of flesh and cloth are people's fathers, brothers, cousins. These wounds and divisions are not so easily healed.
As for Scotland, I am heartily glad that the Scots decided to remain in the Union. That being said I would have nothing done that compelled them to remain. As willing partners they are valuable. As unwilling subjects they would not be.
It should not be forgotten that a century before the official union of England and Scotland, a Scottish king took over as king of England (1603). And that was at a time when kings (or queens) were the government.
As for violence, there was plenty of violence and intimidation by the SNP during the Scotland independence referendum. I'm not sure whether the Momentum (type) socialists copied the SNP socialists, or vice versa.
I made a comment agreeing with above and it has been swallowed, I will try again.
Amen to that. Excellent article.
Raedwald,
If you are in the old terminals (1,2 and 3) of Barajas Airport in Madrid, you can see a large white cross on the hillside across from the runways. This place, Paracuellos, is where the Republicans took truckloads of prisoners, including seminary students, to execute and bury. The Transition which took place after Franco died was in its day, held up as an example of how to achieve democracy peacefully. The person responsible for organizing the Paracuellos massacre was invited back and led the Communist Party.
Discourse is all very well. What is ignored in the luxury, just about still available, of debate and comment is the totally unnecessary brutality and joyful glee in its administration shown. I suspect all of these "storm troopers" were on big bonuses to enforce the might of the EU will. This, hitherto, well disguised and violent embrace of such methods was tested on the Greeks as they were mugged. It looks as though it will once again prove a desirable weapon of choice in the EUSSR's armoury. I suspect Corbyn's army are salivating over such tactics in the UK.
All empires use compulsion and violence in varying quantities: the EU is no exception.
Our government is also happy to set it's enforcers on the plebs if they become uppity. Send in the Met with bonuses and imunity and you get Orgreave.
Under Franco fines were levied if Catalan was heard to be spoken. The horrors of earlier will certainly stoke unrest. The basque folk will not be happy either. The Brussels politburo have not learned,that this behaviour will stoke great resentment.
Under Franco fines were levied if Catalan was heard to be spoken. The horrors of earlier will certainly stoke unrest. The basque folk will not be happy either. The Brussels politburo have not learned,that this behaviour will stoke great resentment.
I have to say that I'm disgusted at what's happened today.
Rajoy has blood on his hands and the police have been forced to use force on their own citizens.
Don't give a flying fart about the arguments that it's only a small vocal minority who wanted this, the fact is the ballot box is the only way to sort it once and for all.
Very fortunately it appears that even EU leaders and heads of state are just as disenchanted at the way things have been handled.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live
Latest is Rajoy claims there has been no referendum in Catalonia today.
Got news for him and his, those who took great risks to vote will not forget and no Sir, it won't go away.
It would seem that Rajoy of the Peoples Party learned well from EU's silence after recent events in Turkey. Government in Europe now extends beyond ignoring referenda to denying referenda by force.
Let the remoaners defend these inexcusable actions.
Spain has now started its own collapse, what a great day as it shows what happens when the state ignores the people. Where are the great remains when Europe crushes old ladies?
There was another Catalan referendum in 2014. 80.8% of the votes were 'yes' to independence out of a 41.6% turnout. Before that 2012, 2011 and 2009. In all cases the referenda were quashed by a ruling from Spain's constitutional court.
The only difference this time was that Madrid decided to send in the riot Police first.
I too wonder why they sent in the riot police. Why didn't Madrid ignore the referendum as it did before? My guess is that they were under orders from the EU in Brussels. The EU has to suppress anything that looks like independence. The EU empire must be very afraid of losing grip.
"few nations have done more to defend and promote self-determination"
Apart for the UK as a whole - that had to be forced out of them. And definitely not for the English, of course. The English most certainly must not be allowed their own Parliament. For a start, the EU wouldn't have approved, having decided that England was to be split into regions - which the Government is busily introducing, via City Region Mayors which no-one voted for.
As for Spain, the EU is reaping what it sowed. It encouraged regionalisation and now the stronger regions do not want to be shackled to, and pay for, the weak ones in their own countries. (Northern Italy isn't far behind Catalunya). So there isn't a hope in hell of them paying for the weak regions in OTHER European countries.
All the Spanish Government has done is made Catalan independence more likely ..... and it won't be long before bombs are going off in Madrid.
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