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Thursday, 27 April 2017

Economic war with Germany heats up

AEP in the Telegraph this morning says it all:-
(Berlin) demanded that Britain desist from tax dumping and financial deregulation that would “jeopardize the stability of the union". This demand is almost insulting. British regulators have led efforts to recapitalize banks. It is the eurozone and Germany that have dragged their feet on tougher capital rules.

There is no longer any attempt at diplomatic tact. The document states that the European Commission will "determine" when the UK has made "sufficient progress" as it jumps through the hoops, the way it handles accession talks for supplicants hoping to join. It reads like an imperial curia discussing a colony.

........ What is clear is that if the final document presented to Britain looks anything like the EU papers circulating this week, no sovereign state can accept it.
Sigh. Like the same-old same-old. Like the demands presented by Austria Hungary to Serbia in 1914, Germany's demands are impossible for the British realm to accept. Not even the softest, most accommodating Brexit negotiators could accept such national humiliation under the heel of the Hun. 

I fear it will be full blown economic warfare. 


DeeDee99 said...

The German governing class are natural bullies. They've been doing it for two centuries now and aren't going to change.

But bullies have to be stood up to. The British Government must decline to do as the Krauts Order and Brits should stop buying German and French products.

We need to bring down the EU; leaving and allowing the Germans to continue dominating the continent is simply not good enough.

Poisonedchalice said...

The big German industrialists (cars, aerospace etc.) have yet to enter this fight. They will. Once they see their exports really do have a chance of falling off a cliff (you can hear the Jaguar-Landrover workers cheering all the way from Ellesmere Port) they will engage to protect both sides.

Dave_G said...

You mean tariffs applied on both sides of the channel?

What's not to like - if you're the Government receiving (needing) them?

There's always a level at which the end-user is willing to pay to have the things they want and given the financial status of the competing countries you can hardly claim they don't NEED such additional taxes?

The consumer ALWAYS ends up paying.

Cuffleyburgers said...

Brussels can huff and puff as much as it likes, but in the end I am pretty convinced that traditional German mercantilism will prevail and the big German manufacturers will lean on Berlin to lean on Brussles to ensure that disaster is averted.

Invocations of Germany's piss poor showing in 1914 are unhelpful, I trust we have moved on from there!

the fact is we are not begging Brussles for a charitable handout. We have a very good negotiating hand and although I have little faith in the skill of the UKs negotiators, I don't rate Brussles much either.

I think it will be an unpleasant process but in the end satisfactory divorce terms will be reached.

rapscallion said...

I'm inclined to agree with Cuffleyburgers. Ultimately it will be sheer pragmatism that is going to force the EU to stopping sodding around, stop asking for stupid money before we even start, and to sit down and thrash out a sensible deal. Trying to isolate an economy that is the 5th largest in the world, and a country that has numerous fingers in numerous pies vis-a-vis the Commonwealth and our language is insanity writ large. Bear in mind that the EU's percentage of GDP is falling in relation to the rest of the world, and with us gone, it will drop even more (and faster).

If that's the way they want to play it, then it's their lookout. At least we won't be locked into a dying economic and political union.

Dioclese said...

I've been on record for years that the EU is the Fourth Reich fighting the third great European war with economic weapons rather than guns. Seems we are now waking up to the escalation of that war?

APL said...

Raedwald: " under the heel of the Hun. "

Oh dear. Is it impossible to discuss relations between Germany and the UK without invoking echoes of the War?

Let's be grown up about it. The Germans have been looking out for their own national interests, that's fair enough, they are making demands that we should not accommodate, lets just tell them, respectfully, No.

I don't know who stands to gain if the West face off against Russia, or a regional conflict is kicked off between the UK and Germany, but if nothing else, we should be able to acknowledge that no one really benefited from the death of millions in western civilisations.

Let's disagree in a robust manner with Germany, but there is no need for infantile name calling.

By the way, can someone put that idiot Boris Johnson on a short leash. He's off barking at Syria again. Bloody idiot.

APL said...

Cuffyburgers: "Invocations of Germany's piss poor showing in 1914 are unhelpful, I trust we have moved on from there!"

Well, yes. I had hoped so too.

By the way, it doesn't play at all well with 'the younger ' generations* either. If we want to carry them with our arguments, I suggest it's counterproductive to talk about 'the Hun'.

*I'm most definitely not one of them, sadly.

Anonymous said...

Raedwald said:

'Sigh. Like the same-old same-old. Like the demands presented by Austria Hungary to Serbia in 1914, Germany's demands are impossible for the British realm to accept'

Lest we forget, treaties can be very dangerous:

Since 1815 the balance of power in Europe had been maintained by a series of treaties. In 1888 Wilhelm II was crowned ‘German Emperor and King of Prussia’ and moved from a policy of maintaining the status quo to a more aggressive position. He did not renew a treaty with Russia, aligned Germany with the declining Austro-Hungarian Empire and started to build a Navy to rival that of Britain.
These actions greatly concerned Germany’s neighbours, who quickly forged new treaties and alliances in the event of war. On 28th June 1914 Franz Ferdinand the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne was assassinated by the Bosnian-Serb nationalist group Young Bosnia who wanted pan-Serbian independence. Franz Joseph the Austro-Hungarian Emperor (with the backing of Germany) responded aggressively, presenting Serbia with an intentionally unacceptable ultimatum, to provoke Serbia into war.
Serbia agreed to 8 of the 10 terms and on the 28th July 1914 the Austro-Hungarian Empire declared war on Serbia, producing a cascade effect across Europe. Russia bound by treaty to Serbia declared war with Austro-Hungary, Germany declared war with Russia and France declared war with Germany. Germany’s army crossed into neutral Belgium in order to reach Paris, forcing Britain to declare war with Germany (due to the Treaty of London of 1839) whereby Britain agreed to defend Belgium in the event of invasion).
By the 4th August 1914 Britain and much of Europe were pulled into a war which would last 1,566 days, cost 8,528,831 lives and 28,938,073 casualties or missing on both sides.


Anonymous said...


Its not just an economic war that Germany has been conducting on the UK, for the better part of a century. Its war in general, by all means.

Germany, because of its size and industrial muscle, has always felt agreived and envious that Britain's influence and power worldwide, was far greater then Germany's. Germans felt and still feel agrieved, that this was not just fair, but downright unjust. I have come across this myself in Germany. There definitely is ill will against Britain, though it comes out quietly, for obvious reasons.

This bad attitude is a reason that we've had two world wars. Losing both has not helped. Even now, Britain is far more influential then Germany. However, Germany's rule over the EU was to an extent helpful, as it gave Germany the chance to lord it over the UK. But even that is coming to an end. Hence the histrionics and hysterics of EU apparatchiks, egged on by their German master.

What angers me is that we continue to buy Germans goods - cars for instance, and even buy from German supermarkets, when there is no need, as we have far better supermarkets, which have far more choice and quality. Its not wise to fund the enemy, as Germany will use trade surplus with the UK to damage us. This will happen whether we leave or stay in the EU.

I would like to see us excercising the same degree of economic hitback, as Europeans, Germans in particular, regularly do to our produce and goods. Boycott their supermarkets. It doesn't affect us much, but hits German pride where it hurts.

BTW, German pride and arrogance is quite noticeable when they deal with other nations - except Britain and America, when they tend to be more subdued..

Thud said...

My wife was hoping to buy a new Merc GLS this summer but has decided on the new disco.On our list of reasons for or against, not buying German was third on the easy decision as it turned out.

anon 2 said...

Agreed, Anonymous @17:58 . . . Though re: "German pride and arrogance is quite noticeable when they deal with other nations - except Britain and America, when they tend to be more subdued.." Firstly, if this is their idea of 'being subdued' - my Sympathy and Condolences to the rest of euroland!

As for the German attitude to the USSA (no, not a typo) . . . well they have a lot to hope for there, because that place not only has a large and powerful German demographic, but is also at mercy of the educational gas mask known as "The Frankfurt School." Germany and America have a lot in common, and Obama showed far more empathy with Germany than he did with us (perhaps FDR would have preferred to do so, too). They're still fighting their "Revolutionary" and "Slavery" wars over there; they only think it's history, and they're masters of hypocrisy. Ergo: let us beward in case of 'pincer' strategies.

Possibly Trump sides a little more with the UK - I keep on hoping. I believe, though, that the 'Democrats' and franfurters (icldg. their college profs. at work in the UK) want to re-make the UK in their own image of "One Nation [that hardly dares pretend to be]Under God."

Budgie said...

If the EU were going to be reasonable they would have offered Cameron (remember him?) a better deal. Actually they won't be reasonable, so we will have to walk away, so we might as well walk away now.

anon 2 said...

Sorry. Here's a clarification re mine of 23:06 --- "want to re-make the UK in their own image" should read:
"As part of a re-make in their own image,[The USSA]want to federate the UK into the euSSR . . . ."

In short, marxist/commie americans support Germany's plan.

Mr Ecks said...

A bizarre set of circs with German arrogance and their desire to bring DinduDoom upon themselves both active at one and the same time.

Anonymous said...

The more unreasonable Merkel & the EU behaves, the more we will be inclined to just walk away. So bring it on.