Would preventive internment have prevented the Manchester horror? Last time we tried internment, in Northern Ireland it was approved by 'Grocer' Heath in 1971 and 350 paddies were banged up. The initial problems were twofold; there were 450 names on the list but 100 got away due to police and army incompetence, and only Catholics were interned - loyalist potential killers were left free. By the time the scheme - called 'Operation Demetrious' by the inept security bunglers - was ended four years later things had hardly changed. There were 1,874 Catholic thugs and only 107 proddy thugs banged up. Economic damage was incalculable, from mass civil disobedience, rent strikes, civic criminal damage and sabotage. Thirteen protesters had been shot dead by the Paras. It was universally agreed that internment was an utter failure, radicalising more terrorists than it took off the streets. Not one experienced police, security or armed forces officer will support it. The evidence is that it doesn't work.
Yet as far as the animal Abedi is concerned, our security bunglers have bungled again. Here was a classic social failure, so thick his mates called him 'Dumbo' with a brow so low he could have passed for a native in the states of the deep south. A classic subject for the evil fantasies of Islamism with its primitive, simple tenets that can be understood by even the very stupid. So well did he absorb the poison that his mates reported him to the terrorist security line twice and his own mosque once. He travelled to and from Libya, a hotbed of Islamism. His brothers and father were Islamists, their own brows hardly less Neanderthal than his own. Everyone who knew him classed him as a nut-job exploding jihadist, and the security bunglers knew it all. Surely, had he been banged up away from the internet, without his passport and his 3G phone, Manchester would have been prevented? The expert evidence suggests otherwise.
The domestic security service has around 4,000 workers and a budget of £3bn, with police forces across the country to do their legwork. Yet they and the police seem to spend more time and energy chasing Katie Hopkins for being rude about Islam than preventing terrorist killers. Abedi should not have slipped through the net. Someone screwed up.
It is fantasy to believe that any other than reasonable, justifiable and equitable measures can be taken in the fight against Islamism. Internment is a savage, sectarian and ultimately futile measure that satisfies populist anger but actually helps the Jihadists. Ankle tags, yes. Confiscation of passport and travel bans, yes. House arrest, possibly. Daily reporting, possibly. Internet bans, yes.
But above all the bungling security services need to apologise to the Muslims - Abedi's imam and his friends - who actually acted as responsible citizens and reported him to the government hotlines but these security agencies then did absolutely nothing. And someone must be sacked for that.
22 comments:
A cancer in our inept, common purpose obsessed Establishment, is any understanding of culpability. None more than virtually all the unworthy inhabitants of Parliament and their media sycophants.
To see that hasbeen incompetent Burnham spouting his platitudinous crap from his Lazarus bedchamber is a good example of my point.
No one will be sacked. No sooner had the bomb gone off than the political establishment and the media were praising our security services to the skies. They are above reproach.
And the woman who was Home Secretary when the security services failed to listen to the warnings about Abedi is now Prime Minister ...... and she isn't going to admit that the security services failed on her watch, is she.
If one was being really cynical, you might wonder if this morning's press stories about the UK Police & Security services being "incandescent" with the Yanks for publishing shared intel is actually a useful ploy to throw the media away from enquiring too closely on thier lack of action with this bomber...
Doing nothing and allowing trained fighters who say they are at war with us to live freely in the UK is not an option.
It was internment without trial that may not have worked.
The government should designate those countries who harbour terrorist camps or where ISIS is fighting, or where the UK is fighting, such as Iraq, Libya, Syria, as countries which require a permit to travel (issued for instance for charity work or a business reason etc.) to these countries.
A Briton found in one of these countries without a permit or has been found to return from one of these countries without a permit could then be prosecuted and incarcerated.
Non-Britons who are thought to be terrorists or have links to terrorism, or preach terrorism against the UK should be immediately deported.
The government also needs to make greater efforts to combat the ideology and spend the money to have proper border controls so we know who is in the country.
Further immigration also needs to be halted.
Actually much as I despise them, our enemy isn't 'radacalised' Islamics*, our endmy is our political and administrative class. Without them we wouldn't have handed out passports like candy at a sweet shop orgy.
But it needs to be said, the outrage in Manchester isn't one isolated atrocity, it's part and parcel of Jihad.
The rape and subjugation to Islamic invaders of hundreds, probably thousands of young girls, is part of Jihad.
The economic disruption that occurs each time a Salman or Khalid attacks is part of Jihad.
And by the way, the shameful scurrying around like scared cats of our politicians when Khalid Masood attacked was utterly demoralising.
*according to some our prisons are a hotbed of Islamic activity.
"Yet as far as the animal Abedi is concerned, our security bunglers have bungled again. Here was a classic social failure, so thick his mates called him 'Dumbo' with a brow so low he could have passed for a native in the states of the deep south"
Abedi, he still got in to Salford 'university'....................FFS! And that, tells you much about our wonderful [once world renowned] now so debased....... ejukayshun system..............FFS, indeed the Frankfurt School has triumphed, and so thoroughly at that! So that, the country is facing such an extistentially dire crisis and the clusterfuckers running the administration where no one knows which way is up.
Undone by our own, the Marxists have won.
There's a difference between a 'need' to act and the 'desire' to act.
.gov will do nothing until their ineffectiveness brings about a threat to their established position and/or disruption to their 'plan'.
Farage on Fox News asks the question of .gov by stating "...so, what are you gonna do about it?" A question that should be shouted across ALL the media outlets but I wonder how far this clip will actually spread via our own complicit media? A media that itself needs to be brought to account for THEIR complicity in the horrific events too - by their inaction, by their 'protection' of a clearly-violent belief system.
But internment IS being used - ask Tommy Robinson how that's working out for HIM.
Its the eternal "he was known to the security forces" bit that troubles me most. It needs political will to sort this out, but we won't have any until one of our senior cabinet ministers children is blown to bits.
"We know who they are" - really? Well how about doing a deal with the US and leasing a few acres of Guantanamo to deport our very own 1,700 "known" terrorist sympathisers?
Raedwald, you say internment doesn't work; well 22 dead children and parents "doesn't work ++" so lets get on with some new radical ideas. These people could be taken out with hardly any knowledge of their disappearance from the communities where they hide.
If internment prevents just one more attack like Manchester it would be worth all the hassle and aggro.
Every one of these "Muslims" known to our security services should be rounded up NOW. Place them in a secure place. Then go thru them with a fine toothcomb. Maybe a little water boarding to help them spill the beans?
Manchester was not a "cowardly" attack, it was another act of war against us. When will our political elite wake up to the fact the vipers they allowed into this country want to poison the whole country?
"If internment prevents just one more attack like Manchester it would be worth all the hassle and aggro.
"
The problem is that it is more likely to increase the number of attacks, by giving the extremists a more popular cause.
Amongst all the distress over the Manchester attack, it should be remembered that the people of Baghdad (especially the Shias) have been suffering attacks like this at least once a week for many years now. The number of maimed people there must run into many thousands.
Don Cox
Dan Cox. Your moral equivalence is beyond the pale.
We of this country and the people slaughtered by home grown jihadi psychos do not cause, condone or excuse murder of others. For religious or any other reason.
You are truly repellant!
Can't answer on internment as I may cause offence - and in any case the Muhammadans who were interned would probably look upon it as some sort of battle honour. No I'm afraid it's all downhill from here gents. The will has gone to sort it out and that's assuming they want to, which they don't.
I've tried to explain to people the enormity of deconstructing a highly cohered society some 1200+ years in the making: the blood, sweat and tears of countless generations, suddenly dismantled by a tiny group of people who think themselves enlightened. In less time than one average life we've gone from roughly two thousand Muhammadans in the UK to more than the entire population of Wales.
To paraphrase Bill Clinton: It's the demographics, stupid!
If you add in all the other 'communities', plus those who left, the English are now down to three-fifths of what they were in the 1950's. Furthermore the English reach a demographic cliff around 2030 when we suddenly hurtle to a minority in our own land around 2050 - due to post-war 'boomers' dying out and low birth rates.
Our own government authored our demise so why would anyone think they are that fussed about fixing anything to do with the replacements they've imported? They are now prisoners of their own ideology and they will die like us.
Steve
Technology - specifically automation - will counter the demographic demise of our population.
Why we need uneducated, unemployable, minority, recalcitrant and reluctant (to join OUR society) immigrants to bolster the population is, therefore, a mystery.
They add nothing, they contribute even less - indeed they are probably a net drain on our resources and they most certainly don't want to 'fit in'.
But as a means to the destruction of OUR way of life and OUR legal and political structure.... yeah - good job!
LIHOP - Let It Happen On Purpose
Security Forces let these things happen because it furthers the elite agenda.
Surrender of personal freedoms, troops on the street, people living in fear.
"You've never had it so good" has become "you've had it too good". Welcome back to feudalism.
"Why we need uneducated, unemployable, minority, recalcitrant and reluctant (to join OUR society) immigrants to bolster the population is, therefore, a mystery."
A question never asked of those that were implicit in bringing them here in the first place !
"We of this country and the people slaughtered by home grown jihadi psychos do not cause, condone or excuse murder of others. For religious or any other reason."
Who said it did ? ISIS, and Islamic terrorism in general, is an appalling phenomenon. It is evil wherever it goes on, whether in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, France, Britain, Germany, Kenya, Nigeria, or wherever.
Religion is no excuse, but is part of the cause.
My point is that we are making big headlines about one incident, when the press and public ignore the vast majority of attacks because it doesn't immediately concern them.
And big headlines are exactly what the attack was intended to produce.
Don Cox
Dave_G said @ 14:54
'Technology - specifically automation - will counter the demographic demise of our population.'
Not sure it will counter our demise - it could have if you'd had people in government who were versed in the effects of automation and robotization in the 70's and 80's. Too late now, AI has entered the field and I've seen examples of self-programming where a task is identified, taken on and completed without human involvement - add that to a robot and you could put a job in front of it and walk away.
That ability develops so you start with say lifting and shifting and a number of cycles later problem solving becomes available within that task. This is called learning. Network your AI Robot and it can build a database of learning cycles. These learning cycles can be adaptive so a new situation may not need another cycle - the robot goes seamlessly between tasks and this approximates human behaviour and the capacity we call skill.
Unlike a car a skilled AI robot appreciates in value and will only ever depreciate when another factor from its make-up is superseded - like improvements to mobility or dexterity. A robot should stand quite a few evolutions if managed correctly and even that job could be handled by an AI system. We don't need unskilled, semi-skilled or even skilled migrants because these jobs will be done by machines - or a process change so that machines can be used instead of humans. Overpopulation will impoverish millions and that's where we're headed.
As luck would have it:
The Keiser Report, today - Episode 1075 (starts at 15:10).
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/389657-episode-max-keiser-1075/
Steve
Just going to post this here..
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674489/Home-Secretary-Theresa-May-says-Britain-benefits-Sharia-Law
Not an original observation - but a pertinent one I think.
Islamist nutters do not even attract the same anount of control as football supporters.
Therein lies at least a part of the problem.
fwiw I believe that the 'Merkans released the info about the suicide bomber because they knew that ACPO / Common Purpose acolytes / the liberal media would skate straight over to prepared statements, strength in diversity and tea lights and somebody wanted to put some small stones in their shoes.
"wiw I believe that the 'Merkans released the info about the suicide bomber because they knew that ACPO / Common Purpose acolytes / the liberal media would skate straight over to prepared statements, strength in diversity and tea lights and somebody wanted to put some small stones in their shoes. "
I tried to say something similar, you got to the nub and far better, more succinctly, quicker in thought, than me.
I'm in favour of the UK banning travel to certain countries without special permission. Whilst we not stop people going, they could be arrested on their return, having committed an offence. Non-citizens would be refused re-entry. Internment would be appropriate, somewhere remote. I would suggest one of the Falkland Islands (there's about 750 of them so one must be available). those interned would probably get on well with the sheep! For Human Rights reasons, they would have their family interned with them so they could have their "family life".
This is an invitable clash of cultures. Islam has been hell bent on the conquest of Christendom since Islam's birth some 1400 years ago. It is to the "credit" of our supremely ignorant and stupid politicians to have allowed large scale immigration of Muslims onto the West.
Knowing full well that they have placed Western civilisation in existential danger, thses politicians and their media accomplices are trying to divert the public's attention to Facebook and Twitter. What utter disgrace. Facebook and Twitter are the products of a free and open society. By forcing them to police thoughts and messages, they are cooperating with Islam in the shut down of a free society. Its not Facebook and Twitter that needs to be shut down but the mosques, and finally the Separation of Islam from us.
What do we do now? The inevitable is that Muslims will be a majority in 50 years or less. Given the nature of our first past the post system, just 30% of the Muslim population voting for Muslim friendly politicians, will lead to Sharia in the UK.
The only way to rescue our civilisation now
1. Muslims renounce Islam in massive numbers.
2. Convert to Christianity
The above two are unlikely, for the simple reason that Muslims can see an inevitable victory over Christendom.
That leaves us with just one option - Separation from Islam.
As the late Laurence Auster put it
Islam is a mortal threat to our civilization.
But we cannot destroy Islam.· ·
Nor can we democratize Islam.· ·
Nor can we assimilate Islam.· ·
Therefore the only way to make ourselves safe from Islam is to separate ourselves
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/006854.html
Sad it has come to this, but this is what our idiot politicians have left us with.
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