The Party rules on a new leadership election virtually guarantee that two Remainers would be selected by the current parliamentary party of majority remainer MPs, to be duly 'offered' as a 'choice' to the angry (majority pro-brexit) party members. Javid and Hunt, for example.And this leads us to the next stage. Taking back our party.
This balance would only change if a General Election were to sweep away some of the remainer MPs from their leaver constituencies - but the party is controlled by May and Lewis, so de-selection and replacement is unlikely to happen, and votes will then go to Ukip, which will lead to a Labour victory.
The ERG know all this - it's a Gordian knot that cannot be untied - or even cut through.
The Conservative Party was the last party of which I was a member. Our club in Ipswich had a decent and well used bar and a full-sized snooker table dominated by a monochrome print of Churchill. I was amongst a million or so members who left the party between 1979 and 1997 - in my case in the early 80s. It wasn't by any means a protest, but the blessed Margaret, for all her fine qualities, was also a ruthless centraliser who robbed Conservative local government and local associations of much of their purpose. So we left in droves.
Well, I have now rejoined. That little biographical box heading the right column must be edited. Mrs May and Mr Lewis will be pleased to hear that I am back - and determined to join with my fellow Conservatives in regaining control of not only our Party but also our nation.
Have a good weekend, all.
35 comments:
Yes but where is your nearest clubhouse Raedwald?
I did this when it looked like she was going to take a tumble...
... But then I tarted receiving emails with its picture plastered all over it, addressed to "Dear Stephen", and every time I opened one I winced.
I am afraid that I cut my card up and emailed Lewis to tell him to cancel my membership, just being associated with that cow made me feel somehow, unclean.
"We've been raising significant money, hundreds of thousands of pounds and that's growing.- Daily ExceSS
There's the problem, right there, I feel. At this stage in the proceedings 'hundreds of thousands' is too little too damn late to really get the job done. As said about the March On Westminster idea, we're now in the stage where Millions are needed. Time=Money, the less time , the more you will need.
Also in the DE at least there was more than a whiff of the 'lady doth protest overmuch' . One suspects the real total of monies raised is but a very few 'hundreds of thousands'... under a 1/4 of a million even perhaps.
And by now everyone should be wary of 'donations'. One can only hope LmL have learnt the lessons of the past and every donation has been checked and double checked to be sure it is Persil.
I rejoined the Conservative Party after Treason May's Lancaster House speech when it seemed that she really was going to implement something approaching a real Brexit. I resigned from the Party after the Chequers coup.
I don't think it is possible to "take back" the Conservative Party; the membership never had it in the first place. The internal structures are intended to keep any decision-making (including parliamentary candidates) as far away from the membership as possible. And they won't be making the same "mistake" Ed Miliband made by making the party more democratic.
Since the Tory Brexiteers will never leave the Party for UKIP or to create a new, Pro-Sovereignty Party, the only way the party will be forced to change is if it badly loses to Corbyn, or loses several general elections in a row.
What I don't get is that the current so-called cabinet and that a-hole barwell (until recently my MP), don't seem to have noticed that their treachery is going down like a cup of cold sick.
I reckon the best medicine for the fucking CONservatives is to ignore it and never vote for any of its representatives ever again.
The only thing that MayBot ever said that was (and is) true is that she belongs to and is now (allegedly) leading the "really nasty" party.
One thing is for sure...
We cannot "remain" now, too much water under the bridge, Art 50 requires that we re-apply, and that will mean the end of the pound sterling.
I wonder if President Trump would consider taking us in? He would inherit a queen!
What changed my mind was re-reading Churchill recently - and his thinking when directing the rebuilding of the bombed Commons chamber. He reasoned that the strength and effectiveness of the Commons was it's facing benches - MPs were either on one side of the floor or the other. Far better than Euro semi-circular parliaments that sat all shsdes of grey in perpetual indecision. The second essential is that the Commons always be small enough so never to seat all MPs at once - squeeezing 400/500 in a small space made debates human and personal, unlike the vast cavernous amphitheatres favoured by despots, dictators (and the EU) with every member having a dedicated seat. It's worth reading the entire and lengthy reasoning.
Anyway, he convinced me that only some reincarnation of the Tory party (and it has reinvented itself several times in the past to survive) would end up sitting on the Treasury benches. All the rest are pressure groups. The process won't be instant - I can see rule changes, legal battles over the party constitution, blood on the floor of the conference hall, a lost election or two and a culling of all the Soubries and Grieves as we battle for the heart of the party. But I don't doubt we will be victorious in the end, and that a Conservative government will restore full UK sovereignty. It's a long game.
Well, yes, but isn't the Tory Party membership impotent and largely ignored by the PCP? I never belonged (never joined any political party) but I'm sure that on the ConHome site - admittedly the repository of many strangely Leftist soi-disant "Tories" plus supine fools who think the sun shines from the PM's nether regions - I have seen many pitiful complaints about how they are ignored by Central Office. Unlike you, RW, I was cheered greatly by Thatcher, and it was shortly after her defenestration that I stopped voting Tory. I haven't voted for them since - mostly UKIP, and in a couple of GEs I decided not to vote for anyone, after examining candidates' record & platform minutely of course.
It's a long game.-Raed
In which my comments on a fighting fund don't really apply. I assumed the object of LmL was to ensure a car crash Brexit come March (even a motorway pile up type Brexit would be preferable to Chequers).
I have little hope of a Leaver Leader being selected 'by the rules'.
However if opposition to May and growing support for UKIP (hold your nose and tell pollsters that you will be voting for UKIP) gathers enough momentum to threaten Conservative seats then I can see May retiring for health reasons and a soft Leave and a clean Leave candidate being put to the membership.
Historically the Conservatives have been willing to change major policies to ensure survival. The question is are they capable of doing this now or must they crash out of a General Election first?
By all means rejoin the Conservatives to get a say in the Leadership elections... but don't think you have to vote Conservative if a better solution appears.
Joining any mainstream political party would be a reasonably 'good thing' if it meant making a difference.
Political Parties are no longer (were they ever?) under the control of the membership - they are, and always have been, operated at the whim of a select and secretive few, paying lip-service to the demands of the true membership - just enough leeway to convince the members that it is they that control events but, when it comes to the big decisions, over-ruling the membership completely.
So why bother?
All we can do nowadays is vote 'defensively' in the blind hope that such protest may make the desired difference.
Vis a vis - vote UKIP. The more people that do this the more worried the Tories become - as has already been proven by forcing the Brexit position - and I see no reason why the same technique can't be repeated now.
BTW that LmL website is either hugely popular and becoming overloaded, or it's been built very badly in a hurry. Runs chronically slowly...
There seems to be a degree of wishful thinking going on here. John Vasc made the point that defenestration of Mrs May will likely result in two Remains being offered to the hapless Tory members. That being the case - assuming someone wants to actually Leave the EU, and not Remain in it or in bits of it - joining the Tory party is completely pointless.
People fell for this last time. And the time before that. Just vote Tory to get "Brexit", was the mantra. UKIP is a wasted vote they said. Right in front of Leave voters' eyes we have been betrayed; and yet, apparently, the solution is to not just "vote Tory" but join the Tory party. It didn't work then, it doesn't work now, and it sure won't work in the future. Fooled once shame on you, fooled twice shame on me.
Change will only happen when the electorate decide to force change. Doing the same thing - supporting the Tories - will result in the same outcome. Fortunately some people are (re)joining UKIP. That will put more pressure on the Tory hierarchy than an equal number of powerless new Tory members.
If you think joining BluLabour can help --then join.
But don't be surprised if the FFC uses rising numbers as an endorsement of her treason.
Keep--however--the pressure on Associations and on your own MP if they be Tory. They can't get enough communications making clear what will happen to them if they support May's betrayal.
If every person who voted for BREXIT--and every person who still believes a democratic result should be abided by--bought one stamp and wrote one letter that would be that for Treason May and her sellout. 20 million letters promising Tory's the dustbin unless they keep their word would do the trick.
It's almost as if the Tories want to lose the next election. They are so bad it's like they are doing it on purpose. Perhaps they realise Brexit is so toxic they want to hand it to Corbyn to deal with it?
Jaded
Possibly a worthwhile move to join the CP, but far more effective will be the way that leavers vote at their next opportunity, or tell any pollsters how they intend to vote (not that I have ever been asked).
I believe that Mrs. May's and Parliament's intended betrayal of the EU referendum result (a "coup" as described by Mr. Benn back in the seventies) will not be able to be swept under the carpet this time.
There will be too many very angry leavers who previously supported either the Conservatives or the Labour Party.
If these leavers decide to not vote Conservative or Labour and instead vote for UKIP or for a leave supporting independent then I think this time the Conservatives will not be able to get away with it and neither will Labour be the beneficiary.
It may be tiny, and for purley local reasons, but I read that in the recent Welsh by-election in Gwynfi (Neath Port Talbot) an independent won with 58% of the vote, with independents taking 70%, PC 16%, Labour 13% and the Conservatives (unsurprisingly)1% (4 votes).
If the leave supporting voters finally stop voting for remain supporting Conservative and Labour candidates at all forthcoming elections then it is perfectly possible for the current Parliamentary majority for remain to be broken.
Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I think Radder's logic is correct. The tories the only party in the current line up that a decent person could vote for. Following his lead i have also joined and intend to bombard them with instructions as to handle this situation. If we all do that ot is hard to see how a party dedicated to its own survival (which has always been the defining characteristic of the tory party) can ignore. Especially when the bigwigs know in their guts, which they surely do, that mays plan is a total disaster.
Budgis for an intelligent person your reasoning is stupid. The only possible voting option is the tories. Wasted votes count for nothing. Votes for ukip pnly count in local elections when thay can scare the tory hierarchy.
The above comment is only valid if having joined you make as much noise as you can.
Raedwald:
'Well, I have now rejoined. That little biographical box heading the right column must be edited. Mrs May and Mr Lewis will be pleased to hear that I am back - and determined to join with my fellow Conservatives in regaining control of not only our Party but also our nation.'
Said the man, sitting on a hillside in Austria.
Steve
we all need to lend our votes to ukip for one term and see if they can keep their promises if not you can go back to wasting your votes again and again
It surprises me that the majority of commentators here don't seem to be that enamored with LmL redux . Very few seem to say 'GREAT idea! where do I sign?'. And that reflects comments elsewhere.
Infact I'm wondering if LmL have realised that there is far less 'traction' than hoped for and that's why they have un-interred the political corpse that is Farage for a Farewell Tour.
Keep sneering Jack--your remainiac gang are the ones with zero traction hence the Fish Faced Cows deployment of brazen betrayal.
As for Farage being a busted flush--he smells sweet compared to shite like Bliar, Mr Woodswalk Crimebell, Fondlebum and Adoomis that front your Team Treason.
Scum all of them.
Keep sneering Jack-Mr X
Actually I wasn't.
JK, I suggest your likening Farage to an "un-interred corpse" is pretty much a sneer - something you have a tendency to lapse into too readily, as with all the puerile "Brexshite" remarks.
Cuffleyburgers, I couldn't disagree more with your "only possible voting option is the tories" assertion. For many years I've thought tactical voting was a bad thing: in a democracy one should vote according to principle and conviction, surely. And in terms of both of those, wild horses wouldn't make me vote Tory, something I haven't done in more than 25 years. I genuinely despise them as incompetents, hypocrites and a shambolic ragbag of careerists, chancers and snake-oil dealers. If there is no worthwhile (meaning genuinely admirable, competent, honest, credible etc) candidate, don't vote at all. It drives me wild to see the same thing year in, year out: the majority moan like mad down in the saloon bar about e.g. mass immigration - then come the GE they go and vote for the same Lab/Con duopoly who have contrived to inflict this upon us!
Suggestions that the Tories are the least-bad option, or something, do not convince, and that is IMO an atrociously poor reason to vote for them anyway. Either vote UKIP, or just don't vote at all. If the turnout falls very low, and/or is accompanied by a big rise in UKIP votes (which will not necessarily result in seats, since the voting sytem is rigged against newcomers) then whoever tries to govern will lack legitimacy, lack power to legislate, and at least we'll be left alone for a bit.
TH, I was far from sneering (well, except that bit about the Zombie King, perhaps). I welcome the LmL ...ANYTHING that helps prevent Chequers is welcome IMO. My big worry about the LmL is that it might make a 2nd Plebis-cide the more likely.
WHAT ABOUT:
1: "One Nation" conservatism, as expressed by Macmillan ( & Heth for that matter ) & Hume?
2: But you are in Austria (?) safely inside the EU urging the rest of us to leave for financial ruin .....
3: ALWAYS remeber that the revolting scum Corbyn is a fervent "Leaver"
Still in need of anti-psychotics Tingey?
1--One Nation is the patronising origin of today's poison Global Elite-sucking WOMI trash. Piss on it.
2-More remainiac crap. Because of debt and leftist inspired mismanagement the entire world is facing huge economic storms that have fuck-all to do with Brexit and which the freedom to run our own affairs will help us weather.
3--Corbin can't nationalise inside the EU--that is it. He fucking loves free movement and if--God forbid--he gets in his first action will be importing another 5 million 3rd world barbarians to help destroy us and ensure he can't be voted out.
Tory win = BRINO
Labour win = BRINO (or worse)
Grand Coalition = BRINO
Lib Dem win = don't make me laugh (but BRINO if a win was possible)
UKIP (influence) = better than all of the above.
Pick one.
If the Tories don't soon elect Boris or Rees-Mogg, and especially if they present the membership with two Remainers for leader, then there needs to be a mass abandonment of the Conservative Party.
I have also rejoined. We need to flood the constituency parties with enough people to force selection of Leave candidates. It's the same tactic Momentum use in the Labour party so why shouldn't we do the same.
I await to see what Farage does with great interest.
Maybe we'll see some new parties or defections to UKIP in the house?
I appreciate the sentiment but can't buy this. The Tory Party must be destroyed. It has long been filled to gunnels with globalist spivs, scumbags, authoritarians, corporatists and collectivists. Thatcher was never a real Tory but an aberration. The party machine has been constructed to remove the possibility of a grassroots revolution. Not going to happen, nor is UKIPs rise - the UK poltical system is now an animated cadaver
Cuffeyburgers, You are wrong when you write :
“The only possible voting option is the tories.”
“The tories the only party in the current line up that a decent person could vote for.”
Unless of course you believe the UK should become a vassal state/colony of the EU, taking and implementing economy damaging rules and regulations with no representation (a very good way to get rid of UKIP BTW), continuing to make payments to the EU (starting with a £39bn fine for voting to leave) and continuing with uncontrolled immigration until our institutions and infrastructure collapse.
For anyone who does not wish this upon themselves and the UK need to find and vote for Parliamentary candidates who do not want this to happen. If this means not voting for a Tory candidate then so be it.
No vote is ever wasted as you maintain and the more leavers who do not vote for remain candidates the more likely it will be that we will either return a leaver Parliament or that either of the main parties will change their policies when they view the results. This applies to Labour as well as the Tories. We saw the result of the 2014 MEP elections.
I would even advocate that leavers spoil a ballot paper if there is no candidate supporting leave as even spoiled ballot papers are recorded and if done in sufficient numbers it will be published and noted.
Leavers voting for remain supporting candidates is the very definition of stupidity – that is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
What I don't understand is all this anti remainers position. This is a pointless attitude unless you discriminate between those who want to reverse the referendum result and those who want to leave the political EU but avoid the disaster of becoming a third country.
I'm definitely in the latter camp.
Dadad--Well you are deluded and economically ignorant to boot.
We will THRIVE outside the dying EUSSR.
Of course the battle is not over once we are out. We MUST destroy BluLab and ZaNu both. They are doing all they can to help us. The entire poison of middle-class leftism must be wiped out. Brexit is not the end of the war. But it is a D-Day against the global elite sucking scum. A decisive defeat for the enemy.
Cuffleyburgers said: "Budgie for an intelligent person your reasoning is stupid. The only possible voting option is the Tories."
But "we" voted Tory at the last election and we've got Theresa May's revolving-door Remain (out of the EU's multilateral treaties; back into the EU with new bi-lateral treaties). Vote Tory, get Remain.
If that's what you want, fair enough. But the idea that the ordinary Tory party member has any real say is an illusion. You would have much more influence on the Tory party hierarchy by lending your membership to UKIP.
How many more times should the Tory party let you down before you say - enough is enough?
Budgie, agree completely: "How many more times should the Tory party let you down before you say - enough is enough?"
It's what I thought in the early '90s and it's what I think today. I just continue to be stupefied by all those who whinge and moan, justifiably, about the pitiful bed-wetting hypocritical Tory Party, but continue to vote for them! It seems beyond rational analysis.
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