Readers and contributors here previously drew our attention to the error of appointing Amber Rudd to government. I was ready to give Boris the benefit of the doubt - but it seems she gulled and fooled me as much as she did the Prime Minister. With a week ahead of events as momentous as any I have known in my life, I'm giving the rest of this morning's post over to a comment made by Sobers to the post below, which deserves a more prominent airing;
"So why don't they just accept the democratic vote of 17.4 million people and give up then? Why can't they accept losing?"
Because they don't understand what losing is. What one needs to understand is the the Remain element of the HoC, and their supporters outside it (which are not all Remainers by far, just the vocal ones) are all members of the same class - the one who for 30 years, ever since Thatcher basically, have been the winners of the political game. They are the sort of people who swan from politics to heading large charities, from heading quangos to think tanks, to well paid media jobs, to running NHS trusts, or whatever. They all swim in the same sea, move in the same circles. They are the movers and shakers in State funded circles. They consider they run the country, and for 30 years its always moved in the direction they agree with. Yes there might be a nominal Conservative government every now and again, but none of them ever do anything to reverse the flow of more regulation, more State control of everything, more immigration, more taxes, more public spending, more European integration. A Tory government might slow the advance a bit, but the direction of travel always remains the same.
So in their heads they have decided that what they want is the only way the country can move in. Its just the natural state of affairs to them. Anything else is immoral as far as they are concerned. Just suggesting slowing down the speed of travel generates plenty of vitriol at those who dare to question them, the very idea that someone might throw the supertanker into reverse doesn't even fit in their comprehension.
So all of this isn't really about the pros and cons of being in a supra-national body such as the EU any more. Its about a political class being faced for the first time ever with the word 'No'. Its so discombobulated them, the mask has slipped. No longer are the usual platitudes about 'working families' and 'democratic choice' even paid lip service. They have been thrown out as their naked desire for power is exposed. Its become a nothing less than a power struggle - who is to govern, the People, or the Political Class? That's why they can't let Brexit happen, not because of any specific arguments about it, but because its become an existential fight - if they lose it they lose everything. If the voters can force the political class to leave the EU against their will, what other ideas might the people get?
25 comments:
We are never going to leave the EU...
That's a sobering thought.
I keep coming back to direct democracy... These retards who can never lose, need a less partial boss.
As Farage has been saying for a couple of months now, Democracy requires "losers consent." For a democracy to function, the losers of a vote have to gracefully accept that they lost. And neither the Remainer British Establishment, nor the EU, have accepted that they lost.
This isn't just about leaving the EU now. It's a fight for democracy and the rights the British people gradually won over centuries which the Establishment Remainers are attempting to steal back.
So why didn't all the reactionaries just accept the magnificent result of the 1997 General Election and give up for good then?
@JPM at 08:43
Because you cretin, it was the result of a General Election, and just in case you hadn't noticed these tend to come along every 5 years or so. Sometimes even after 2 or 3 years has been known, but not of course since Dumb and Dumber introduced the FTPA and thus tweaked with something they didn't understand, nor were able to contemplate the consequences of their stupidity.
General Elections allow a government to be changed but the voting itself is not binary, as there are more than two choices. The Referendum was a different beast entirely, and one where it was promised by all and sundry that the result would be respected and honoured, and nothing of the sort has happened. If the referendum is not honoured then we don't live in a democracy and effectively disenfranchise the population. I refer you to JFK's saying that "those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable"
Nothing good ever came from Bliar's election of 1997.
Ah, rapscallion, a good did come out of 1997 - as far as our membership of the EU was concerned.
I'd spent years trying to persuade my colleagues of the COS that was the EU - usually met with rolling of eyes, getting up to make a cup of tea, or going outside for a tab.
With Blair promising this, changing to that, and eventually handing my rights to the EU parasites - they began to realise that there was a point to my ranting.
I never expected we bunch of uneducated lessers to overcome our intellectual superiors - like JPM - but we did; and it was all down to Blair's arrogance.
I am relishing every single minute - I want to see these bastard's faces dragged through the dirt: just as they did to us.
Screw 'em.
Each and every stage of the EUs growing dominance has by-passed the electorate (of EVERY country) and their policy of obfuscation and refusal has been designed and implemented precisely because the open truth would bring about total rejection.
Why else would the manipulators 'hide' their intent? If they were totally apolitical and had everyones best interests at heart why wouldn't a majority actually vote to accept their decisions?
Politics is about proposing a collective idea and getting the public consent (by majority vote) to accept/implement it.
The in/out referendum did this, Scottish independence did it. The EU have AVOIDED it every time (or negated it).
And each and every 'political' system introduced over the heads of the electorate and majority consent has FAILED - inevitably with violent consequences. Name me one that hasn't.
The EU is no different. Brexit may end up that way too.
sobers,
I believe it, all about the eu to be a little more intricately woven than that. However, you nail the essence of UK remaianiac quisling classes, and ultimately about aux naturellement = power and if they don't have it, it's a fucking big way to fall off their very lofty ivory towers........and notwithstanding its financial implications.
Where is the LAW that says that another referendum on the UK's relationship with, or membership of, the European Union must never be held? There is not one is there?
Furthermore the five years between elections are neither here nor there. If there was any way that Blair's opponents could have brought down his government from day one then they would have, wouldn't they?
Why should pro-European Union people act any less diligently?
You can try, but you will not drag us down to your level however.
The true analogy with 1997 would be if John Major had refused to hand over the keys to Number 10. Blair could have waited another six months, and another six months etc.
After all the people truly didn't know what they were voting for!
The point is whether pro-European Union people should abandon their cause, not what is wrong with this-or-that analogy.
There is neither legal nor moral reason why they should.
And we won't.
@Cheerful
I think you mean drag you UP to our level. We've been trying to do that for a while now and you are perfectly correct to highlight the futility.
I thought I knew what obtuse meant!!!
JPM, could you pop over to John Redwood's blog this morning, there's a good chap; he needs someone- anyone -to answer an important question on Remain.Inexplicably the space remains void.
Maybe he's in Parliament and a bit busy? Who knows?
Incidentally, what do you think of Lord Sumption's legal opinion on Johnson's declared intent to break the law?
@ Wessexboy
When one's enemy is makng a mistake it is better to let them get on with it. Redwood is a slimy creep who will twist any comment. Better to leave him alone.
JPM said The point is whether pro-European Union people should abandon their cause, not what is wrong with this-or-that analogy.
Nothing whatsoever. You are entitiled to vote on rejoin or stay out if/when it is offered and it's offering will be at the discretion of the prevailing Government of the time as per the Scottish in/out debacle.
But during the interim (i.e. after the public voted to leave) you should, nay MUST, accept the decision or face the repercussion of the people acting against 'your' wishes if/when the ime arises and another vote is held and it goes your way.
But, in your world, the vote MUST go your way no matter what the actual result is???
There's a word for that attitude.
Everyone is free to act within the law.
That means free to campaign for or against whatever relationship with the European Union.
The lawless mob can take what they get if they try to suppress that by thuggery.
And if any of them come near me with that aim, then I can promise them that it won't be pretty.
When we joined the Common Market we believed we were moving to a select and, more importantly, a defined estate where we would pay a share for the upkeep of the roads to facilitate travel within the estate and perhaps some other useful features such as a security patrol.
Now, 4 decades later, with no further mandate, such as we have every 5 years or so when we elect our Parliament, we find ourselves forced to fund a corrupt and expanding commune where we cannot elect and remove those who are making the rules and spending our money.
Such as the EU’s “European Neighbourhood Policy” (ENP) where we fund spending on countries such as Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine, Armenia, Georgia, Libya, Syria, Azerbaijan, Israel, Moldova, Tunisia, Belarus, Jordan, Morocco, and Ukraine (£10bn alone) in order to prepare them for EU membership.
This is in addition to Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia and Serbia and Mr. Cameron’s list of “stan” countries included in his “Atlantic to the Urals” speech made in Kazakhstan July 2013.
If this particular Parliament votes to overturn the referendum result to leave the EU, either by revoking Article 50, or by signing us up to the EU’s WA treaty from which we will have no lawful exit according to the AG and no representation or veto, it will be the last meaningful vote either Parliament or the people of the UK will ever have.
Oh dear.
Someone is getting very angry that their Blair non argument was rightly shot out of the water.
Boo Hoo. You sunk my strawman battleship.
Spoken like a true "European"!
can't wait for the Scottish leadership to start their independence campaign - hope they're prepared for exactly the same opposition and arguments against it that they place on our efforts at Brexit.
What will consititue a majority vote for independence?
What deal will they get from Britain?
How will they deal with campaigns to remain despite the outcome of the result?
Hysterical!
If this doesn't illustrate the ridiculousness of the situation and the collapse of democracy I don't know what does.
Well, what of Sumption's opinion?
Will Johnson obey the law, or will he be impeached or imprisoned?
Or is Sumption wrong?
Nice timing by John Bercow, incidentally.
Bercow runs away frit.
As for BoJo--you won't be jailing him Cheesy so put your dick away.
From tonight no more chamber of traitors tricks possible until the 14th Oct. After finally confirming tonight their contempt for the British people and democracy.
If you scare easily, avert your gaze from Statistics Netherlands tomorrow
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb
Do you think that it is now time for Britain to draft a formal constitution? What has been happening seems to this Aussie to be just unbelievable, under our constitution the results of the referendum would have already been implemented otherwise a general election would have been called.
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