Both Nigel Farage and Kate Hoey have now spoken authoritatively confirming that the destruction of Brexit by the Patrician establishment is under way. The destroyers have an end game in sight, and will ensure that the biggest ever democratic vote in British history is overturned.
However, if anyone seriously imagines that after a brief spell of upset, everything will go back to normal they are deluded. Britain is now changed for ever - we are a different nation to that which went to the polls in 2016. The EU too is much changed; their naked ambition for an army now clear, as for a central ministry of finance, for all the laggards that are not yet in the Eurozone to be forced to switch to the Reichsmark, and for an even greater power-grab from the nations of Europe than ever before.
If Brexit is finished, the EU with which we are being forced to conjoin, like a slave forced in concubinage to the Master's son, is not the one we voted to leave. Many Remainers will be shocked and appalled at the result - but they will have done the deed.
I have no doubt that this shotgun second-wedding would be short lived. Within a year or two, when the chains of serfdom have bitten, if the EU had not then collapsed from internal dissent, we will decide overwhelmingly, for the second time, to leave. And next time there will be no mistake.
But the economic, social and international damage to Britain will have been done. We will have lost years of opportunity, even more of our institutions will have been destroyed or corrupted. We will look across Britain and see the barren, hungry, cursed and divided land that blighted Europe following the Thirty Years War. That will be the result of destroying the first Brexit.
Weep, Britons.
50 comments:
No, the horrors that you describe will be merely the continuation, of what stems from the British being sadly gullible enough to elect Tory governments time and time again.
I think that the UK will leave the EU anyway.
None of my close family members died fighting for this country in WW1 or WW2. The ages of the generations fell just right, so that they were either slightly too young or slightly too old to be called up. If they had, their deaths would have been in vain.
And that's how the millions of Brits, who DID lose family members will see it.
They fought for our freedom and independence. And our treacherous politicians - in fact the entire Establishment - is destroying everything they fought for.
This is how civil wars start.
TPTB learned a lot in Yugoslavia, that exploded over the same kind of problem.
It may take longer to kick off, but when it does, it'll be a biggie.
EUslavia, here we come...
For now.
The EU's ambition for a military has been crystal clear ever since the Lisbon Treaty, since it is expressly PART of that Treaty.
The dissemblers in the Leave campaigns could rely upon the fact that most of their dupes had never read a damned thing in their lives, let alone that Treaty, to pretend that it was all a secretive conspiracy.
DD. My grandfather died in WWI. My late father survived some of the bloodiest fightling in WWII. He thought that Churchill's idea, the EU, was magnificent.
Are you aware of what this coming Saturday has been named, btw?
Strange that Clegg asserted it was all a fantasy then, isn’t it.
The prospect of it actually happening was indeed a fantasy, so long as the UK was in the EU.
As Clegg explained, the proposal required unanimity among member states, and several, including the UK, had said that they would always veto that, just as they would Turkey's "imminent" accession - another Great Leave Lie.
Dishonest sophistry, anon.
Mrs May has signed us up to the military structure of the EU. The U.K. powers that be have not opposed it at all.
Anon, so are you claiming that had we voted stay, they would have collectively said "damn, we would have had our EU army if it wasn't for those pesky kids"
Nigel Farage shouting "Scooby dooby doo!" Would have climbed into his mystery machine (with "let's spend £350 million on the NHS" painted on the side) and roared off to foil the next of their evil plots.
Who are those other dissenters BTW, as it's still clearly a fantasy whether we had vetoed it or not
No, Sebastian. Check your facts.
The military proposal, to which this country is in principle committed is NOT the one in the Lisbon Treaty.
It is a multinational one, composed of some EU member states yes, but an independent venture, not bound by the terms of that Treaty, and where the participants would have more control.
The world is not a cartoon, as portrayed by the likes of Farage.
I too wholly agree with Churchill's idea for the EU - it was both magnificent and clear sighted
But it didn't involve the United Kingdom.
Keeping France and Germany shackled together as Churchill envisaged is a certain way of preventing either nation again fomenting a continental war.
Anon, but doesn't the EU need it's military to defend against, among other things, the USA? Sounds like a cartoon to me.
Better start expelling all those US bases currently in the EU and we'd better be on our guard here in airstrip 1.
Anon, I watched the clash between Farage and Clegg. Clegg did not say "yes the EU wants an army, but we can stop it as long as we Remain" he sneered and denied, making out that an EU army was Farage's conspiracy theory akin to the one about fake moon landings.
You demonstrate daily that your post-modern approach to truth and facts is on the same lines as the rest of Remain's lies. That may be necessary to dupe people into being the slaves of EU ideology but it isn't the truth, you will be found out, and it won't even benefit the EU. The EU is rotten as a result of it.
Raed said "Keeping France and Germany shackled together as Churchill envisaged is a certain way of preventing either nation again fomenting a continental war."
??? Doesn't appear that way - not 'war' exactly but certainly civil unrest, spreading from France given the current status.
The media (again) is hiding the extent of discontent and protest - even here in the UK - and, like the financial crisis, the longer they try to keep it from exploding the bigger the explosion when it eventually (inevitably) happens.
A Brexit (real Brexit, not any half-baked tie-us-to-the-EU-in-perpetuity Brexit) would be a really large release of steam from the pressure cooker such that if Europe does start to kick off at least we won't be overly encouraged to join in.
As it is, I've already purchased a couple of yellow vests (really) and this from a self-confessed keyboard warrior that is edging closer to supporting even physical violence (yes, it's that bad and I'm not proud) against those seeking to destroy my lifestyle and my country.
Maybe that's the plan? Get people so riled about the situation that they even 'welcome' the prospect of a 'good old shit-kicking' between countries to start the reset? Only God alone knows where that would lead......
Anon - I've warned you twice before about using those false figures. Please post again, but this time, for avoidance of doubt, I'll accept any figure from 44m to 47m as the number of UK electors.
Raed. Your post is based on what, in my opinion, is a groundless assertion that the only people who matter in this country are the brextremists among the seventeen million Leave voters. That has to be fewer than seventeen million.
Furthermore, it has been estimated that a significant number of those have passed away now, never mind those who have changed their minds.
So if the population of the UK is sixty-six million, then that leaves my guess at about fifty million other people, probably more, but we can't be sure.
You can invent reasons why you think that they don't matter.
As I said, they, or their guardians, might have something to say about that.
I don't have a problem with general and hypothetical arguments but those referendum figures are quite precise - 17.4m of an electorate at the time of 46.5m voted Leave.
If you read my posts you'll know I am concerned with the welfare and well being of ALL British citizens, and all those others who are in the UK to visit, study or work - that's why I advocate Brexit, because it's the solution that provides best for their future well-being
And the death clock thing is entirely specious and not worth commenting on. It is pure fascistic arrogance of the sort that seeks to divide a people by race, faith, gender, IQ or age - the sort of fascistic arrogance that gave Europe the T4 clinics, and which subjected Sweden's educationally sub-normal citizens to compulsory sterilisation until 1974.
I'd be ashamed even to mention giving any credence to those foul notions if I were you.
Anon, how many of those who voted in 1975 have snuffed it? (Yes, I know that referendum didn't take us in but it could have taken us out)
What is the difference between a "brextremist" and a leave voter and are you saying their votes should somehow carry different weight?
Has nobody who voted remain changed their mind?
If a "brextremist" is somebody who wants a so called "hard" brexit, hope it's not too churlish to point out that the increasing likelihood that we may get one is down to the shenanigans of pretty overwhelmingly remain sympathizing MPs.
Once again Raed you suggest, that people, who for whatever reason did not vote, do not matter.
Many were too young, too ill, homeless, or of frequently-changing address, or simply had the humility to admit that they did not know which way to vote, or were denied a vote for some other reason.
They are all PEOPLE too.
You cannot change the fact, that of the PEOPLE of this country, only 26% voted Leave.
It will be up to the other 74% alone, to decide whether they think that they should matter or not.
I have a hunch that that they will decide that they should. Maybe Parliament does too?
Regarding this troll, specious and extremist for his own arguments yet nasty and aggressive to counter arguments. Does that other tool of the deep state, Hammond have a twin brother? Hammond's disgusting conference chat with the deep state's corporate paymasters was suppressed I note. That was remextremism writ large.
Anon, what ARE you saying?
There was a result which you didn't like and are questioning it's validity. What possible other interpretation of these repeated emotional spasms is there?
What are these 74% going to do?
Many were too young - to vote presumably. So do you want to reduce the voting age and if so to what and what about those who are still too young.
Should voting be compulsory then as there were those who chose not to (as there are in all election)
All that I am saying is that every person in this country, irrespective of whether they voted Leave or Remain, or did not, or could not vote at all, is equal before the law, entitled to any opinion that they might form, to change their minds on any matter, and to pursue any lawful course of action.
Now, you can ignore, dismiss, or deride, all but the most fanatical anti-EU people among them, but Parliament would appear to have the good sense not to do that.
Incidentally, although many Labour constituencies did vote Leave, the margin by which they were won was generally less than that by which Labour took the seat, and the great majority of Labour voters in those seats voted Remain.
mr anon
You cannot change the fact, that of the PEOPLE of this country, only 24% voted remain.
The rest of your ‘argument’ could also apply to a Leave proponent.
Please go take a look here: votenone.org.uk
Many people choose not to vote, as they feel that ‘it makes little or no difference, and “they never listen” to us anyway’
Personally I have been eligible to vote since 1974 and have never got the Council or Government,I wanted,in any election that I have voted in but hey, shit happens maybe next time. It’s called Democracy.
Anon.
First para:who's denying that?
Second para: So anybody on this blog who disagrees with you is "fanatically anti-EU" and their views don't count. Parliament in its grace and wisdom is ignoring these knuckle staggers which is why we may end up with no deal.
Third para: And? (Hint, it wasn't just Labour voters who voted in the referendum in Labour constituencies)
Anon - it's clear that whatever the referendum result had been, even it was 75% leave 25% remain with a 90% turnout, you would still be in denial about losing.
There is absolutely nothing that will persuade you to accept democratic outcomes. For you, democracy is just something you use if it gives you what you want - otherwise you will distort, corrupt, twist, bully, harry and obstruct until you get your selfish desires.
This is exactly why our democracies need protection against those such as yourself. We've fought too long and too hard to allow authoritarian bigots such as yourself to overturn our freedoms.
What a load of straw man rubbish you construct on my words as ever.
I know quite a few people who did not have strong feelings either way, but who, on balance, voted Leave, and who are now utterly bored by the whole thing, understandably. They obviously are not the fanatics to whom I referred. There are similar people who voted Remain.
I am not claiming that a new vote would be near-certain to produce a Remain result, and I am not asking for one anyway - for the nth time - although it would be funny.
What I do object to is the BNP-ukip-BF-EDL faction among the Leave vote trying to intimidate those lawfully and simply doing their jobs, such as MPs and the judiciary, or those exercising their rights under the law such as the brilliant, beautiful, courageous, Gina Miller.
The fanatics need to get it into their heads, that they do NOT enjoy in any way a higher standing in law than Remain voters.
When you condemn those who threaten and intimidate ALL actors in the process, leave as well as remain, I'll know you are sincere.
Until then, you've shown youself to be a partisan bigot blind to democracy, careless of the truth and sympathetic to the most vile thuggery against those on the Leave side. You're as rotten and worthless as the worst fascist street thug. You have not an ounce of balance, fairness or justice in your soul.
And I'm very grateful to Mz Miller - without her intervention, Parliament could not have thrown out the Remainer treaty.
What 'thuggery' towards those on the Leave side?
Where is the murder of a pro-Leave MP as happened to Jo Cox? Where are those crowding round female Leave-backing MPs outside Parliament, yelling abuse?
If there is any such thing, then I condemn it unreservedly.
Yes, when we see the Hammer-And-Sickle tattooed onto shaven, thick-set, neckless heads, along with the EU flag, and Labour, like we do the England flag, ukip, B N P etc., and when they have murdered a democratically-elected politician in recent times, as was Jo Cox, then I will accept that the Left and/or Remain have a thuggish tendency.
We just don't though, do we?
Well, I've no idea whether the balaclava clad thugs who attacked Nigel Farage had the EU flag tattoo on their necks or shaven heads, or whether the Remainer thugs who loosened his car wheels sung 'Ode to Joy' as they prepared their murder attempts, nor whether the Marxist thug that bullied JRM's young children on their own doorstep had the Official Motto of the EU in ink on his arse, but you must be particularly blind in your reading if you pretend not to know of the widespread anti-Leave intimidation. Normally inflicted by masked, violent Remainer thugs.
And yes, I condemn the indimidation of Ms Soubry as much as I condemn the imtimidation of Mr Farage - unequivocally. As should you.
And you're a bloody fascist little fool if you want to see one more MP dead to 'balance' the tragic death of Mz Cox.
mr anon
Are you femi_sorry?
Asking for a friend.
I would have thought that it was pretty clear, to any balanced reader, that I deplore any intimidation or violence towards any person who is acting lawfully, provided that we have reasonably decent laws to regulate behaviour, e.g. the criminal law as it is, the Human Rights Act etc.
There are more than one proscribed organisations on the Right, and on the anti-EU side - and with good reason.
But where is the proscribed pro-EU one?
The wheel nuts incident was deduced as "not the result of an act by a would-be assassin" by the Belgian authorities, I seem to recall, yet you claim to know exactly who did it, and with that intent. I have an open mind on that.
Political violence is a progressive/leftist play - take the Antifa wankers - their modus operandi is to incite violence then play the injured party.
At any march they don't agree with you can be sure it starts with them spitting on people and (when that invariably doesn't work) start throwing coins etc to escalate tensions.
At this point the compliant media step in to report on the right wing violence.
Wait a minute! Anon has done some GOOD on this blog...he has stopped anyone else daring to post a comment as "anon"!
Re "Betrayal", this began, quite clearly, on the morning of 24th June 2016 when Cameron resigned (as TPTB instructed him to).
Aw, that poor, poor, patriot, Thomas Mair, sent to prison by that nasty, traitor, Remainer judge eh, Matt?
You're 'avin' a woolly scarf, me ol' china!
Anon, How dare you equate the nut-job murderer of Jo Cox with Leave voters or Leave.
Anon 'dares' to make the association because z(h)e has no real argument in this discussion.
Fatuous, factless, facile, fascist - and anothe 'f' I will refrain from using on this occasion.
Anon, your determination, in the face of your 'facts' being dismantled in evry response is typical of the antifa brigade - care to admit your membership?
Straw man again Budgie, I wasn't equating most Leave voters with him, and only a fool would claim that I was.
But it's exactly the same as "not all muslims are islamic terrorists, but every islamic terrorist is a muslim" isn't it?
Right-wing extremists are so far, without exception, also Leave backers, generally fanatically.
So come on. I'm open to persuasion.
Name a proscribed pro-EU group?
Name a pro-EU activist who has been convicted of serious violence?
Name a Lib Dem, Labour , Green, Plaid or SNP activist who has been convicted of same?
Come on, the world is waiting...
Anon, How dare you equate the nut-job murderer of Jo Cox with Leave voters or Leave.
Perhaps because Mair was reported to have shouted "Britain First" .
When UKIP do their upmost to link Brexit with the EDL/Britain First wankers.
When , i'm sure, mild mannered & quite reasonable (at least judging by his comments) men post things like this "and this from a self-confessed keyboard warrior that is edging closer to supporting even physical violence "
Then it isn't a great a leap to tar all Leavers with Mair's brush.
"Then it isn't a great a leap to tar all Leavers with Mair's brush."
Wow. Just wow.
By the way, the "Mair was reported to have shouted "Britain First"" was proved wrong the very next day (maybe even the same day).
But no one here is doing that, Span, Jack was just pointing out that it would be easy to do, no more.
Look. Mair's trial judge declared the hearing a terrorist one. I think that you should refer to that as to what was "proved".
That's that.
Now, can you supply the info for which I asked? Didn't think so.
Oh, "proved", was it?
So several witnesses on oath were all lying were they? And yet all gave the same accounts?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jo-cox-murder-trial-tommy-mair-britain-first-thomas-mp-killer-court-latest-a7416021.html
Well, thanks for proving that YOU are yet another Leave liar to most decent readers' satisfaction, Span.
"Then it isn't a great a leap to tar all Leavers with Mair's brush". Not for you Jack it would seem.
Anon. Return to earth and try thinking a bit.
Yes, there are some very nasty and unpleasant people who are actual nazis. Yes, these people hate the EU (as I'm sure they hate China, India, Brazil, Narnia). How else do you expect such people to behave and how else would you expect them to vote? (those that bothered)
Leavers know how these people behave and we condemn them utterly and wish they would go and goose step somewhere else.
"Straw man again Budgie, I wasn't equating....." And again, you can rationalise it all you like but of course you were. You absolutely are trying to label all leavers as knuckle dragging nazis. Otherwise why mention it?
This is sophistry of the most basic kind. Well actually no, its not sophistry. Its a false argument but its not clever, just tiresomely inevitable.
Jack Ketch said: "When UKIP do their upmost to link Brexit with the EDL/Britain First wankers".
No UKIP doesn't do its utmost to link Brexit with EDL, BF, or BNP. Or even a little bit. There are no links with such groups and their ex-members are banned from UKIP. Unlike the Tory and Labour parties. Hate-not-hope isn't actually accurate you know.
Pointless diversions.
The assertion which I have demolished, is that supporters of Labour, LDs, Greens and SNP are as likely to be violent as those of ukip, BNP, etc.
Demolished, LOL.
You quite clearly try to equate Mair with right wing politics and also Brexit supporters. As I understand it, it was shown he wasn't shouting the name of the fringe political party Britain First: he shouted “This is for Britain”, “keep Britain independent”, “Britain first, this is for Britain, Britain will always come first.” The very witnesses you mention had to confirm it because the press was having a field day getting it wrong.
Also, not sure what info you're on about.
“This is for Britain”, “keep Britain independent”, “Britain first, this is for Britain, Britain will always come first.”
So clearly a BrexSShiteur of the first order? Whichever way one chooses to interpret his reported comments it confirms Anon's point.
So clearly a BrexSShiteur of the first order?
No! That's the point. He was very anti immigrants (especially fake refugees) for very personal reasons; his MP was very proactive in getting even more immigrants to the area; the days before the killing the local paper was full of yet another local grooming gang. He may have been a raving leftie for all we know, like most NF, BNP down the years.
When Nigel Farage went to Scotland during the independence referendum he got some grief from supporters of the SNP didn't he?
Brexit will be like Singapore on the Thames. Dyson. Singapore. Ooo err missus!
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