Now I have to apologise to the myriad ranks of mid-level civil servants here, dedicated and professional. They lack the anilingual abilities, mendacity and hypocrisy of those destined for permanent secretaries, but their straightforward research and inherent honesty has built up a dam of information that has been held back by their bosses, such was Mrs May's determination to restrict any useful information that would weaken the Robbins Treaty. From such internal censorship grew myths such as Dover.
Well, the recent past, once the government could deny Clean Brexit planning no more, has seen a veritable tsunami of evidence in favour of Clean Brexit coming from the bowels of government. I offer, ladies and gentlemen, just one graphic from UK Port Freight Statistics, from the Department of Transport (one of whose alumni is a valued reader of this blog):
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| UK PORTS - TONNAGE HANDLED 2017 |
38 comments:
Their trick has been to play fast and loose with the words ‘ferries’ and ‘freight’, using whichever carries the most emotive baggage according to the spurious argument being presented.
Indeed. Dover handles mainly Ro-Ro the majority of which is inward bound from EU. Impact would therefore be to EU rather than UK. Plenty of other ports could handle more Ro-Ro.
This from the Brexit Central blog makes interesting reading.
https://brexitcentral.com/supposed-cliff-edge-leaving-eu-wto-terms-another-millennium-bug/
My view is and has been that the choice is between living in a regime run by people who dislike us and have no thought for what we want or what is good for us as a nation, who we don't elect and who we can't remove. The alternative is living in a regime run by people who dislike us and have no thought for what we want or what is good for us as a nation but who we elect and who we can remove from office. That difference gives us all a chance to improve our lives and it's missing from the EU option.
There may be several months of turmoil after the 29th March but it won't last forever and the prize is a better form of freedom than is on offer from the EU. The prize is either much more than the cost and that's why I believe we will be better off Leaving the EU.
Yep, most of ours goes from London (25-30 20 and 40 footers a week)
Look, you’ve spent a lot of time on that and it might be factually correct, but I’ve looked in my heart and I just know that somewhere out there, beyond the white cliffs of Dover, beyond the failing EU, beyond the top 50 gdp per capita countries, beyond sense, logic and experience, there’s a country where they go wobbly at the sight of a ruddy-faced, middle-aged Englishman in a pith helmet, where they’ll worship a Corby trouser press as if it was an omen from an alien civilisation, where the mention of Schweppes tonic water makes the heart beat faster and the thought of a Werther’s Original is enough to induce drooling. That country will recognise our innate superiority and bow down before us, the English, the true masters of the earth. So onwards, Brexiters, onwards to a glorious future where Britannia once again rules the waves, where an Englishman can tell Johnny foreigner what’s good for him, where the Queen reigns over half the earth and where Nigel Farage is worshipped as a living god. Let’s make it happen, let’s Brexit!
Anon, your slip is showing: you are convinced - or have believed the hype - that Brexit is all about racists and xenophobes. So, so far from the truth. I suggest you tell the team-leader looking over your shoulder in the Remain internet troll 'call centre' bunker that you have failed, get out into the fresh air.
Hmmm what I take from that graphic is that we import more than we export through our ports. Not sure if that is such a healthy sign.
As to Ro-Ro congestion, I would be more optimistic the yUK.gove was right if they were to reopen not only Ramsgate/Ostend but Flexistowe/Zeebrugge along with increasing the Chunnel flow.
Werther’s Original -Anon
Aren't they German?
So it's just about "coping" now?
Not about thriving and flourishing?
Anon 10.55 - and that's exactly why 'Remain' lost the referendum.
Thirty years in construction taught me many things. One of which was, if you wanted to really know what was happening on site, have a brew and a fag with the site housewife, the labourer who makes the tea, keeps the site huts clean, answers the phone and signs for deliveries.
You're reviving a stereotype that was outdated even when Goebbels used it nearly eighty years ago.
Yes, you really are that much out of touch. Put some trousers on and get out of the house is my advice.
Span Ows. The brexit cravers include all sorts, from those who politely and eloquently express a view, such as Rees-Mogg (the implications of which are reprehensible however - a return to killing in Ireland, about which he apparently does not care), to those who would murder democratically-elected MPs as has already happened.
No, you can't claim that they're all one or the other. No one did.
And as for "project fear", no, if you run blindfolded across the M25 then you are not certain to be killed. However, only a Leave voter would be so pathetically weak-minded as to be persuaded actually to do it.
Anonymous said "Look, you’ve spent a lot of time......"
If that's all you have, just quietly fade away. Stop embarrassing yourself. You're certainly not embarrassing us.
Werthers? I believe so Jack. And Schweppes was Swiss wasn't he?
That's one of the main weaknesses of cynics. They think that everyone else is like them.
We. Are. NOT. Like. You.
Cheer up!
Search You Tube for Julia Hartley-Brewer and Peta Credlin.
I am in love - twice.
Fine. Keep embarrassing yourself then.
Anon, Do you have the same views about Americans who wanted independence from the British Empire, or Indians for that matter, as you do about the British who want to be independent of the EU empire?
Only Remains seem transfixed by the British Empire, I've never heard it as a reason to leave the EU from Leaves. Ever. Even the oldies who voted Leave grew up largely post-Empire. They grew up believing in "self-determination" (you know, that UN human right thingy) and simply want to apply self-determination to the UK too.
Assume we are as thick as you think we are. Humour us. You will need to go through the logical steps from us wanting to leave the EU empire to arriving at a point where the British rule half the world and Farage is a god. If you can.
Getting divorced "exactly like not being married in the first place", claim Leave voters
Why don't you save your jejune petulance and parotted bon-mots for Twitter? It's all a bit misplaced here amongst the grown-ups.
Utterly useless, pathetic UK "would only have been another Greece and not another Germany in EU", whimper Leave voters.
Raedwald, could you block this anonymous idiot until he gives himself an appropriate alias? Or perhaps offer him one - I'm sure we could all help with suggestions. Still, he is entertaining....
From further down the same statistical tables: Dover Ro-Ro = 2,891,500 Ro-Ro units in 2017, the next highest was Grimsby/Immingham at 872,500 Ro-Ro and London at 572,500 Ro-Ro. So Dover handles some 3.3 times more than Grimsby/Immingham and about twice Grimsby/Immingham and London put together. Just a little further down those statistics is a much more informative chart showing ports by load type - not such a cheerful picture. This simple and informative briefing clearly shows there will be a bit of a problem if we don't sort out customs etc.
As far as I know ports are not easily fungible. Personally I am laying in a small stock of baked beans, Chateau Mouton plonk and frozen burgers. Social media is already full of helpful shopping lists - just in case.
Ports may not be fungible but freight can be - pallets of Mouton Cadet can go in containers or railfreight wagons as well as curtainside HGV trailers. May be slightly greater time / cost than RoRo but doable.
Empty trucks don't have to return on the same route - once perishable / time critical loads are discharged they can return by less busy ports, night sailings etc.
Nothing there at all convinces me it presents a real problem. There's existing spare capacity.
Nothing there at all convinces me it presents a real problem. There's existing spare capacity.
Maybe you are right, there won't be a real problem etc. But one thing I know for sure
because being British it has to be: It will be a clusterfuck. People will get hurt. The devil tends to be in the details. For example even a slight delay may mean truckers not being able to drive because their clocks are full or has anyone checked Border Farce have enough of those cable tie 'seal' thingies to re seal containers they have checked?
Go on Raed, you're British, tell me hand on heart that you are confident this government will be capable of not royally screwing things up?
Gents, everything you say is true (well not that sad dick anon obviously).
However we are in the realm of politics here, 1st division stuff and facts or the wishes of the electorate are obstacles rather than a guide.
We will not get a no deal brexit, I'm not sure what we will get , but it is likely to involve staying in the customs union, so we might as well not have bothered.
However the issue won't go away and the chances are there will be regrouping of politics along in/ out lines (left and right are passe given that they're all social democrats).
The argy bargy will last for a generation until the eu falls apart of its own accord, hopefully without a war.
Jim, yes, and Dover is the ONLY port 100% EU traffic (another of the map charts), hence the media focus on that one port. The gist of what we have here is a myriad of alternatives still with ample capacity.
Oh, come come, Jack, it was well worth it.
Whether it's customs union, the Norwegian deal or whatever, at some point Farage, Hannan, and the rest of the lying low-life will get a helpful shove between the shoulders at some point - at the top of the EU Parliament steps, hopefully.
Hundreds of millions can't wait.
Yes, I could cope without my left leg, if it came to that, but I rather hope that it does not.
Ketch wrote - ....you are confident this government will be capable of not royally screwing things up?
Perfectly confident that they could deliberately make such a mess of it, absolutely!
We've heard, from an almost 100% media-biased position, about how desperately 'bad' a no deal Brexit might be but nothing at all of the advantages of being a country free to make its own decisions and set its own tax rates, free(er) from red tape, import/export opportunities, lower cost of inward goods etc etc.
Equally we've heard nothing of the (potential) benefits or likely problems that the EU side will have to deal with.
What did get settled, in the first 'few hours' after Brexit, with little argument and a lot of instant agreement, was the handing over of £39bn (minimum) as 'compensation'. This shows precisely where the EU's priorities lay - all else has been sheer bloody-mindedness!
No one can possibly believe that this will be a totally one-way issue and 'all' bad...... it simply isn't possible. Anyone that believes this WILL be the case is seriously propagandised so kudos to the BBC and Guardian et al for their stirling efforts and deception.
Really? Are you that gullible?
I would suggest that all leavers between now and Brexit reduce their purchases of EU merchandise to help the Government cope with Brexit and at the same time reduce our £100bn/year trading deficit with the EU.
Noticing everywhere how much desperate remain shite there is abroad on the Net. Shit-feared their stitch-up isn't going to work. Well it isn't.
May won't get her cockrot through. The rest of the MP scum seem to be in a daze--like some sex-crim who has decided to commit suicide and might as well go out in an orgy of evil. But even if they manage to squirt, once the fevered high is done they will be left with a sticky, nasty and ultimately fatal mess.
John Brown, Yes. I started avoiding EU products about a year ago, without any prompting from others, yet found later that many of my fellow Leaves were already on to it. We have the economic power! We can do something.
Anon, This is what Remain fanatics like you say:
I have just thought of a problem with Brexit;
That means no-one else has thought of this problem;
Therefore no-one has thought of a solution to this problem;
So there isn’t a solution to this problem;
That will be a disaster;
So Brexit is a disaster;
QED.
You are a joke. Every Remain “disaster” I have ever heard has already been solved somewhere in the world.
'all' bad...... it simply isn't possible.
-Dave G
I agree 100% but by the same token, those Brexiteers who seem to think Brexit will magically transform us into a land of cake and unicorns (ie be all 'good') are just as gullible as those remainers who think that a 'train wreck brexit' (a phrase from a Leaver btw) will be the Zombie Apocalypse (all bad). Which is why I spend so much time reading the thoughts -not of Leavers-but of those brexiteers who have actually thought about things, often for decades, and who are, unlike BrexSShiteurs, going into this with their eyes wide open and knowing there will be little cake and probably quite a bit of pain before things pan out and anyone can really say if it was worth it (beyond warm fuzzy, possibly mildly xenophobic, feelings of 'independence') You ask if I am that gullible, but by definition no one knows how gullible they were until after the 'con'. Personally I keep to Granny Dwarf's wise words that "When a politician says 'Good Morning' they have lied twice already". Which, IMNSHO, was the way we all, on the libertarian side of things, felt until 2016.
-not of Leavers-my rantings
Edit* Should have read not of Remainers.
"We will never be dictated to", says grovelling, Leave-voting wage-slave, waiting for the 'phone to ring, and then dropping everything to be called in for yet another eighteen-hour NMW shift by his swaggering boss.
Leave-voting wage-slave, waiting for the 'phone to ring, and then dropping everything to be called in for yet another eighteen-hour NMW shift by his swaggering boss. -Anon
I doubt there are many such here among the commentators, most seem to be 'doing ok'(and many not resident in the yUK).
Ah, now I recognise our psychotic friend who hasn't been here for about 2 years - they will start emailing me now as well leaving all sorts of unpleasant threats.
Which is a serious reminder to us all of the danger of those severely as risk of mental illness being triggered by the Brexit farce. Please display compassion folks and don't be provoked - they need treatment and medication, not cruel words.
Not only that, but Portland could be turned into a decent port for shipping, as could Falmouth...
"If you buy more sausage rolls from the baker than he buys from you, then he will let your staffy crap all over his front garden" chirps Leave voter.
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