Yes, let the people decide. I suspect the
I must apologise for not penning a longer post. We're waiting for the government to speak, to give leadership, direction and reassurance to the nation. No one knows what happens next. The elite may conspire to postpone an election even further, the government may pull a rabbit out of the hat.
However, yesterday's ruling has changed our democracy for ever. An open conflict between the people and the political establishment may be fought on the battlefield of Brexit but we're fighting for power - they to retain the State they've captured by stealth, we to regain the democracy that is our birthright. This conflict will not end until one side is defeated and the other victorious.
And we demand an election.
& H/T Mark for this -
40 comments:
You'll get your election, once the country is able to see just what a crock of steaming merde this Tory-owned exit from the European Union is.
Have no fear,
You mean remainiac owned "exit" I think.
Scared of democracy, JPM? Frit of the people? Frightened of the ballot box?
A General Election will not be allowed until Parliament has forced Boris to break his promise that we would leave the EU "do or die" on 31 October.
Anti-democrat Grieve was on Sky News a few minutes ago demanding another Referendum. That's their aim: they know a General Election will deliver Leave-supporting Parliament. They aim to rig another Referendum, with a choice of Remain or Bremain.
And of course, in true EU style, that will be the "final" decision. Having got the result they want, they will never allow another Referendum.
Unfortunately I suspect that Cheesy is right, for once, however, it will be the criminal coalition of remainers that will be behind it, they are in control.
Of course, this will not last, even if it takes two years to get an election, all that represents is another two years for us to get closer to open rebellion.
No taxation without representation.
You're falsely invoking "the people" to mean the minority who are as fixated as you yet again.
Ask Brenda from Bristol.
Brenda says she wants an election now - as do I suspect, when the polls come out, about 65% of the electorate. Still Frit, Cheesy? Frightened of the people? Democracy will roll over you like a tsunami.
Actually Radders the blower cartoon in the Torygraph today sums it up perfectly.
@JPM et al.: can we now lay to rest the canard that leaving the EU is somehow a Tory plot?
I would hope it is indisputable that GETTING US IN was a Tory plot (which finally succeeded when Ted Heath used the Royal prerogative to sign us up before consulting Parliament.)
https://theylaughedatnoah.blogspot.com/2019/09/brexit-patriot-games.html
True, some - like the trader Mr Farage, and the slapdash Mr Johnson (the Boris Bus, the backstop-free and still bloody awful WA) - may talk up the advantages of uncontrolled "free trade" outside the EU, which cannot be in the interests of the ordinary working person now that much of the rest of the world has caught up with our Industrial Revolution and at the same time has workforces on a currency-adjusted fraction of our domestic wage rates.
We need to (1) get out of the EU and (2) structure trade deals and tariffs so as to control the rate of economic change and give us a chance to remodel our economy, without going so far in the direction of protectionism that we provoke a mutually destructive trade war with the EU, China etc.
Or, of course, we could relax into despair, as Peter Hitchens seems to have chosen to do.
I'm pretty neutral on the matter, but enjoying the entertainment just now.
Also I'm lukewarm at best on whether there should be a vote on what the UK's relationship with the European Union should be after departure, or whether it should not leave at all. However, you seem to be rather afraid of that idea?
Some votes are more frightening than others to some, then?
PS, this very recent poll says that only one in five want an election:
https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/ge/
A general election before Brexit is delivered is a double edged sword. As John Longworth said in the telegraph:
"If the losers do not consent and contrive by whatever means- delay, revocation, more referenda, even by general elections prior to implementing the result to reverse it or ignore it, then no other vote will have legitimacy."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/supreme-court-have-sided-usurping-remainers-people/
This issue does not require a long post, it is starkly simple. We The People want our say.
1. The 2016 referendum result must be honoured. Otherwise referenda in future will be irrelevant. The questions we were asked to vote on could not have been clearer & the commitment to deliver our choice of action was emphatic.
2. A General Election must be held immediately. We have a PM deliberately put in the Stocks & mocked by enemies at home & abroad. This further demeans the country for cheap partisan political gain.
Another referendum would be pointless. “They” will compromise it by asking different questions which deliberately split the leave vote.
I doubt The People will forgive these upstarts; none of them project an attractive persona, Bercow, Magic Grandpa, Nugee etc.
I personally want revenge.for what they have done. I suspect my treat will be served cold.
Sorry Cheesy try the authoritative site rther than the outlier
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/would-you-support-or-oppose-a-general-election-before-october-31st-2019/?notes
It was about 43% want an early election, 34% don't and the rest not bothered - polling from 4th - 13th September. I bet fieldwork today tells a very different story
(NB excluding the don't cares that's 56% FOR an early election 44% against - so my 65%-now guess may be conservative)
Ah and here it is - ComRes poll snap poll for the Telegraph
"The survey found strong support for a general election with 47 per cent backing a poll after October 31, 2019 compared to 26 per cent who disagreed (27 per cent didn’t know)."
Excluding the DKs that's 64% FOR
@ DeeDee99
"Anti-democrat Grieve was on Sky News a few minutes ago demanding another Referendum. That's their aim: they know a General Election will deliver Leave-supporting Parliament. They aim to rig another Referendum, with a choice of Remain or Bremain"
I suspect the Remainers have overcooked it. A referendum in 9 months won't be enough to see off Leave, rather it will expose even more Remainer shenanigans. Plus how will a desperately minority Boris government hold together for 9 months?
JoE. All these "musts".
Says you and whose army?
Parliament is sovereign.
That is for what your mob voted, remember?
Parliament voted overwhelmingly for a referendum.
Leave won 52:48 by vote and 64:36 by constituency.
Parliament voted overwhelmingly to trigger Article 50 with no definition of how we would leave.
We had a GE where both main parties’ manifestos said they would respect the referendum result winning 80% of the votes and 90% of the seats.
To continue for the watching world to believe we are a democracy we must leave.
The remainers say we need another referendum because we did not define how we would be leaving, not that this was feasible before negotiations with the EU had taken place. Mr. Cameron’s version had already been rejected in the referendum.
Since the leave v remain position has already been decided a second referendum can therefore only be between two leave options, the best “deal” the EU are prepared to offer and “no deal” (WTO terms).
It is undemocratic for “remain” to remain on the ballot paper.
It always was from the very beginning the remain elites’ plan to hold a second referendum with remain and a rotten deal as the options.
BTW, the remainers are hiding from the electorate what “remaining” means. They need to be questioned on this point.
Raedwald, those polls show the same results as the one that I linked.
You have added together the supports for the different options, it seems. There was less than 20% strong support for a GE either before or after 31/10/19.
The people are not jumping up and down, waving pitchforks, and frothing at the mouth like your thralls here are.
"The people are not jumping up and down, waving pitchforks"
Which is why - oh dear trollbot - the referendum was allowed in the first place. Talk about misreading public opinion!
No danger of that happening again is there!?
As of this morning, European banks are trading just above their post-crisis lows of 2012. Bunds are yielding minus 0.6%. These are unmistakeable indications of an imminent deflationary crunch in the Eurozone, which will require the biggest bailout in history.
All those self-satisfied morons currently congratulating themselves on their good judgement in thwarting brexit will land us with a legal liability of several hundred billions. The remain cabal in parliament are committing an act of unprecedented stupidity. They will be crippling Britain fiscally for decades.
Good luck hiding that from the British public. Triumph will certainly prove to be an imposter, not entirely sure that despair will be though.
Yes we are...
Cheesy - it is normal good statistical practice to combine both 'support' and 'strongly support' and 'oppose' and 'strongly oppose' together to give an overall bivalent outcome - were you not aware?
But, but, but mr Raedwald it’s ok for mr JPM to add together the remain votes with the didn’t votes, to reach a conclusion that more people ‘voted’ to remain. You know it must be correct, ‘the party’ knows best, JPM loves big brother, we must learn to love big brother.
Any new referendum must ask the right questions. We anticipate a 'Remain or Bremain' i.e. 'fix' referendum when the REAL questions should ask:
"Do you want to JOIN the EU or LEAVE the EU".
Both sides can then campaign on the relative merits of JOINING the EU (as it now is and what it is to become) or the advantages of leaving the EU.
There is no disputing that the EU we originally voted to leave in 2016 is not the same EU that we would remain in if we simply canceled Brexit - it has changed immeasurably and those changes are to be magnified enormously post 2020 and the Lisbon Agreement. Hence we need to start from scratch and ask the population if we want to (re)JOIN an EU that is what it is NOW and not simply remain in an EU that was 'then' (2016).
So, all you supporters of another referendum - can you argue against such a position?
I'd be happy for this to be an option to settle the 'second referendum' debate.
JPM you crapulent moron, Parliament is only sovereign if the people deem it so and right now they dont.
Cheesy--you do a reasonable job of hiding your desperation under the curtain of lies but your endless posting gives it away. Brexit is on and punishment of remainiacs like you will be a part of the big dismantling of the globo elite infiltration of our society.
As for your fuckwit polls--they--like your bogus marches and even more bogus petitions-- are a pile of deceitful remainiac cockrot.
If, as Johnson and Rees-Mogg etc. claimed, prorogation was "nothing to do with brexit", then how can cancelling it possibly have any bearing upon it either?
How can it be "an attempt to frustrate brexit"??? Come on, make up what passes for your minds.
You can't even lie with a grain of coherency, not that your goldfish-memoried thralls would ever notice.
Well we had Magna Carta now it looks like we have Magna Cunta and it's cheerleader Magna Troller.
I think we can all agree that turning down the opportunity to govern is extremely unusual - truth is I don't think it has ever happened before. Labour must know something could go badly wrong for them if folk got a hold of that stubby pencil. Fear. So, we concentrate on an election as the clock runs down, which means every day Parliament sits a minister stands in front of the dispatch box and asks for a General Election. Every day. It will be in Hansard for all time.
Steve
It seems that Steve is correct:
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/09/25/they-are-too-cowardly-anti-brexit-mps-taunted-in-house-for-refusing-general-election/
Raedwald, here's your inestimable Lord Sumption:
"Supreme Court ruling is the natural result of Boris Johnson’s constitutional vandalism"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/supreme-court-ruling-is-the-natural-result-of-boris-johnson-s-constitutional-vandalism-kshrnrt55
Cheesy - leaving aside the subs' lurid strapline, Sumption is just saying that an elected Parliament representative of the people should be supreme - and no-one would argue with that.
So let's have an election and create such a Parliament - a Parliament in which the candidates don't lie to the electors about their intentions; yes, let's have a Brexit election, clear out the lying rabble and reclaim our Parliament for the people
Then I'm sure we can all support without question the supremacy of its actions.
Radders - Sumption has also stated clearly that whatever "law" the PM "broke", the Supreme Court conjured it up out of thin air. Result. Constitution 1000 years old destroyed by a politicised judiciary. The rule of law supersede by the rule of lawyers.
Good luck with that, those who applaud it.
On the bright side, the UK is all set for a grand remake of Those Magnificent Men and Their Flying Machines.
Boris as Sir Percy Ware-Armitage and a whole cast of Brexiters to play Courtney.
Make British films great again!
From the dispatch box this evening:
We will not betray the people who sent us here. We will not abandon the priorities that matter to the public. And we will continue to challenge those opposition parties to uphold democracy. If the members opposite so disagreed with this government’s commitment to leaving, they had a very simple remedy at their disposal, did they not. They could have voted for a general election.
…
for two years they have demanded an election but twice they have voted against it. The leader of the opposition changes his mind so often, I wonder whether he supports and election today or whether the shadow chancellor or the shadow attorney general has overruled him because they know the voters will judge their manifesto for what it is, more pointless delay… is he going to dodge a vote of no confidence in me as Prime Minister, in order to escape the verdict of the voters.
Steve
To Anonymous Steve at 20:30
"... the people who sent us here..."
You do appreciate that he is referring to the people who do not want their financial affairs and tax games exposed by the EU's level playing field rules.
Or, do you hail from Clacton?
When Brexit Boris says he wants an election we know that's a lie.
You chaps are overthinking this thing.
Why do you believe he cares about you? See what he did to the Queen.
www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/incredible-sulks-anger-is-followed-by-ranting-of-geoffrey-cox
An election now? You must be kidding. Never interfere with the enemy when they are killing themselves (Sun Tzu?).
Anon 22:00 I think that was Napoleon (Bonaparte, not Bercow)
Back in the UK again and enjoyed immensely Geoffrey Cox and BoJo today in parliament.
JPM, should we have an General Election now?
Post a Comment