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Wednesday 20 May 2020

Michael Gove runs a tight ship

More of a placemark than a post this morning; I'm sure we will all need to find these documents quickly over the next few weeks as the activities of the Brexit saboteurs rises to a crescendo.

The focus, clarity and process of the talks is a tribute both to Michael Gove and David Frost. What a change from dreary May's demented bungling, and the idiocy displayed by Oliver Robbins.

David Frost's letter to M. Barnier (.pdf)

Draft agreement on Fisheries (.pdf)

Draft Trade agreement (.pdf)

Frost's letter is a model of reasonableness, and recognises that poor M. Barnier has been given an impossible brief by his principals. It also sets out the UK's position to the rest of the world and makes it very difficult for the EU to deploy their usual threat and pressure tactics of smear and confected outrage. It is a well-constructed attempt for the UK to take the moral high ground, and to my mind succeeds admirably.

We will all have learned that all successful negotiations always allow both sides to claim some gains, and I suspect that for the EU these will be tariffs. France, the biggest global consumer of Scotch whisky, may pressure the EU to penalise her own drinkers in a fit of pique. But I'm sure we'll get over it - too much and we boycott EU goods in the UK, which is the last thing that German carmakers want.

Over to you, M. Barnier.

Update
======
M. Barnier responds to Frost - "I don't like your tone, my man" - but no rebuttal of UK's fisheries position other than "consequences - we will punish you". Twitter comments include "Lord North all over". Judge for yourselves

Barnier response to UK

47 comments:

Smoking Scot said...

You could have warned us they're pdf downloads.

Raedwald said...

Apols - now done

Smoking Scot said...

Not sure the German vehicle makers will suffer too much. Company perk people do want the status bestowed by the badge in the driveway or car park, though Lexus is now deemed worthy.

The attached link gives all the stats for 2019 and it seems you are perfectly correct, we have gone off EU buggies, mainly French and Italian.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/uk-2019-car-sales-analysis-winners-and-losers/

To me it's no surprise that Peugeot's attempt at luxury - the DS range - has not made it in the UK.

Be interesting to see how Vauxhall fares now it's owned by Peugeot.

Anonymous said...

The German car makers have been quite clear.

They value the integrity of the Single Market and Customs Union more than they do trade just with one of twenty-seven other countries.

And even if they did control the German government, Germany does not control the European Union.

But if you don't care about fifty thousand needless deaths of British people owing to the boundless incompetence and callousness of the government, then you're hardly going to be bothered about dire economic consequences of this puritanical brexit idiocy, are you?

Prawn Sandwich said...

Macron is the problem.

Raedwald said...

Genuine question if anyone knows - is there a critical global mass for carmakers to make LHD cars for Aus, Indian, UK, Japanese etc markets? Would tariffs that drasticaly reduce UK imports impact the profitability of a manufacturer's LHD offer? Or doesn't it make any practical difference?

DeeDee99 said...

Pleased to see that at least one sub-team in the Government is competent.
Tick, tock Barnier.

Dadad said...

Don't you mean RHD cars for UK etc ?

Mark said...

I think the UK/EU tariff regime is a bit of a red herring to be honest. Their real worry of course is that when we are free from their customs union they won't be able to keep third country goods out of the UK market.

Rather good example of rejoiniac desperation (found in a ten second go-ogle) today on this is money.co.uk.

"New cars built in Europe set to become £1500 more expensive for UK customers next year".

Where to start!

The usual assumption. No deal - WTO - mean that tariffs WILL be imposed and at the maximum rate allowed.

Remove existing EU tariff on third countries and Hyundai's (I've got one, rather like it), hondas etc are cheaper. Absolutely fuck all the reich can do about this and one can see why euro-sphincters are contracting and where demands for a "level playing field" come from.

For political and practical reasons, we should remain essentially schtum. I do think the ball is very much in their court.

Have to confess I am starting to feel a hit sorry for Barnier. Their search for scapegoats is going to be pretty interesting to behold methinks.

Raedwald said...

dadad - oops yes of course

Smoking Scot said...

There's far, far more at stake than just cars. Next time you go on a motorway, check the badge on the tractor units of the big rigs. Not one will be British. Same with light trucks. Same with long haul buses. Even those vans.

All UK has are city buses and LDV. We offer a very lucrative market for commercial vehicles and Merc as well as Pug are making inroads into taxis.

And for Raedwald, it's no big deal to produce a lhd or rhd vehicle. With respect to design and development it's a small single digit percentage cost - and with more and more manufacturers offering screens rather than proper instrument panels it was even worth Tesla to do it.

And you overlooked two tiddlers; Malta and Cyprus.

And I overlooked Volvo. Bugger. Really big on commercials too.

Nice to see a piss poor attempt to degrade or demean. Whatever you do, don't point out cases and deaths per million in Belgium and Spain.

And yesterday wasn't about Turnips or Swedes deary, what he meant was Carrots and Parsnips.

John Brown said...

I’ve read that one third of the world’s population drives on the left – so quite a substantial market. But will it matter anyway when AI gives us driverless cars?

Does anyone except the large construction firms believe that we need HS2?

There is no economic case for it and recent events have shown that out-of-date and expensive steel on steel mass transit systems are useless when we are under attack by a virus which may be accidental or even deliberate.

It is safer and much cheaper to use smaller, individual electric vehicles employing modern rubber on tarmac technology and with the ability to join and leave the system at many points so that everyone along the route can benefit.

These new roads would be designed for AI vehicles only to enable fast and safe journeys.

Span Ows said...

Smoking Scot 09:36, I think the ease with which "anon's" shit flows he's probably been on marrows for quite some time.

Well if we all buy British we can be in Caterhams, Morgans, Noble and a few others...or are they all gone too?

Mark said...

If you go to youtube and look for autoexpert.com.au will will come across John Cadogan, a rather bluff and entertaining ( and very knowledgeable) Aussie.

Look at his videos re the demise of Holden (the local GM offshoot). GM decided that their RHD offerings were not worth it, but largely due to internal GM politics and financial issues). There obviously is a minimum figure but the UK us a non- trivial market. It would always be worth it as for as left driving Japan I would think.

More generally, regarding the EU I don't know why people fixate on cars, and overpriced and rather mundane German ones at that (quite a few of which are not actually designed, engineered or built in Germany). Or perhaps it's not really something for us to fixate on.

DiscoveredJoys said...

One of the ironies to my mind is that when we were asked if we wished to remain in the EEC or not (back in the Seventies) one of the MSM arguments was that we would get cheaper wine and tobacco. What we actually got was protectionist trade that preserved EEC production at the expense of cheaper Commonwealth goods. We were knowingly sold a pup which grew and grew into an undisciplined dog.

If we find that goods are the same price, or cheaper, after the transition period then that will benefit us. If it exposes the illusions of the EU, that is their problem and not our concern.

Don Cox said...

"These new roads would be designed for AI vehicles only to enable fast and safe journeys."

You have a touching faith in software.

Don Cox

Dave_G said...


UK passenger car sales were around 2.3 million in 2019 which is a substantial amount of vehicles by any measure so if you had access to even 10% of a RHD market.... quarter of a million cars is not to be sniffed at and the cost of making them in RHD likely to be correspondingly small.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said @ 07:42

'And even if they did control the German government, Germany does not control the European Union.'

Yeah, you keep thinking along those lines mate and you'll go far - to a Galaxy far, far away..

Snake Oil Update:

UK is bulk buying hydroxychloroquine as possible Covid-19 treatment

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/uk-is-bulk-buying-hydroxychloroquine-as-possible-covid-19-treatment/ar-BB14lAnJ

Steve

Anonymous said...

'Germany does not control the European Union' - so why does Merkel always place herself centre front on any line-up of world leaders and why did/do Juncker, Tusk & Co all go running to her whenever there was a problem? And why is there currently a legal battle about whose bank - Germany's or the EU's - has the higher authority??? Either you are trying to convince us, unsuccessfully, or you haven't been paying attention.

Dave_G said...


Well it IS a Grauniad link so apply the usual caution.

I did, however, find some interesting ONS numbers:

https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/2051617/stream_2.48625966.jpg

Span Ows said...

Dave_G, good find. Now factor in 5 million more people in the final 5th of that graph shows how things have improved.

John Brown said...

Excellent work and letter by Messrs Johnson, Gove and Frost.

Level playing field? Is the EU going to require all its states to institute minimum wage levels to match those of the UK?

No state aid? What a joke when we have seen the Germans, French, Italians etc. cheat whenever they like. I have seen it at work in Germany myself.

What about how we have paid over many years to subsidise other countries’ infrastructure to give them a commercial advantage over us?

And to pay for corporates to move their factories out of the UK to other EU (and even non-EU!) destinations?

No wonder we have a £90bn/YEAR trading deficit with the EU.

What about our payments into the CAP, mainly to benefit French farmers, and for which in return we pay food prices which are higher than we could pay by importing from non-EU sources?

And the EU’s access to British fishing waters is simply legalised theft with the Dutch even breaking EU law by continuing with environmentally damaging pulse fishing in UK waters. It has to stop.

John Brown said...

Don Cox @ 10:48 :

And I suppose there are no accidents on motorways today, such as lorry drivers falling asleep?

There are and will always be risks but I believe the advantages of driverless vehicles will outweigh the risks.

Mark said...

Not really our concern anymore is it?

Mark said...

Simple question regarding software for an "autonomous vehicle".

Would you sign it off?

And let's see an actual autonomous vehicle before we start redesigning cities.

Oldrightie said...

Drive by wire will make LHD and RHD obsolete. A small stick between the seats will allow all cars, a la Airbus, to be driven from the right or left hand seats when AI needs intervention. Sorted!

Anonymous said...


I can't imagine for one moment that AI will stop 'all' accidents so in the inevitable case of such, who do you blame?

In a fatal accident there is no one culpable, no one to jail therefore all accidents come down to compo and zero incentive to change.

Then there is the inevitable question of how AI will chose who will be injured/die in the event of a no-win scenario ie you're going to crash and it's a choice between kid, mum or gran as the victim?

Hmmmmm.

I do like the idea of a central joystick for 'piloting' though. We already have cars with electric steering so fly-by-wire seems the logical next step.

Anonymous said...

John Brown and Don Cox, I can't imagine a safe driverless car in a world where the majority of cars are actually driven, but I can imagine a driverless vehicle on a road solely for the use of computer controlled vehicles being safer. But, I'll believe all the hype about driverless vehicles when the rail network is driverless.

Anonymous said...

So, the idea behind border checks in the Irish Sea is to keep the island of Ireland 'disease free' according to Gove.

What's the idea of treating GB as a dustbin for diseases? Is that a bit like GB's nuclear waste processing industry? More Brexit trade?

Anonymous said...

Guess who said this ..."Northern Ireland has got a great deal. You keep free movement, you keep access to the single market and, as it says in the deal, unfettered access to the UK"

Yep, oven ready Boris.

Anonymous said...

Thee problem with this letter is that it exceeds the 2-page limit that applies to Boris' attention span.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/info_site/uktf-20203060790-mb-reply-to-df-wd.pdf

Nessimmersion said...

AI controlled cars are most likely to come in/be accepted in small steps as follows:
1)Insurance requirement to go at full speed on motorway i.e automatic braking and lane following.
2)Lanes on smart and other motorways reserved for AI assisted vehicles then AI only.
3)Urban zones only permitting vehicles with auto braking etc when close to pedestrians then full AI once the alleged benefits are proven to a certain acceptable level.
4)Non AI vehicles will not be insurable other than as classic cars with controls on usage such as speed limits/annual mileage/night time use.
Of course all the above requires insurance company buy in, but they haven't been slow in requiring black box reporting for cars driven by yoof or some other target group.

DiscoveredJoys said...

Annonymous @ 16:27

"Then there is the inevitable question of how AI will chose who will be injured/die in the event of a no-win scenario ie you're going to crash and it's a choice between kid, mum or gran as the victim?"

No, that's confected concern. You programme the AI not to collide with anything. There's no provision for deciding what to hit preferentially in the Highway Code.

Anonymous said...

Just catching up on PMQs

So, Boris is saying the country's a bit short of a bob or two and needs to charge foreigners working in the NHS for their healthcare services. "I've given this a lot of thought", says Boris and we are talking about 900m quid.

Turns out that the correct sum is closer to 90m. So, was Boris playing to the Brexit crowd (nice big number, they're too dim to check etc.)? Can't do sums?

Perhaps it's just that they are the wrong kind of people.

Anonymous said...

Labels: epic failure

450m and counting for Boris' Operation Last Gasp. And it's not clear any body will use those ventilators.

Still, Mikey's experts reckon that US Trade Deal will more than make the numbers up.

Mark said...

Does anybody know what the troll is going on about?

YDG said...

"Does anybody know what the troll is going on about?"

In detail, no. But his outbursts cheer me up. When a left-wing, remainiac nutter is in that much pain and despair, then normal people are doing fine.

Mark said...

Phew, thought it was just me!

John Brown said...

Our answer to Mr. Barnier should be for us to become more European and buy British rather than EU goods wherever possible in order to help reduce our £90bn/YEAR trading deficit with the EU.

I have not bought any French agricultural products since 1990 when CAP supported (with UK taxpayer money) French farmers set fire to one truckload of live British sheep, killing 219 of them as well as poisoning, slitting throats and dousing others with insecticide.

As well as wanting to give the UK a punishment beating - as requested by French President Hollande in a speech 07/10/2016 - the EC are keen to implement WTO rules so that they can obtain some money from import duty and VAT from UK goods coming into the EU and thus partially recoup all that they have lost on the UK imports into the EU whilst we were members.

Anonymous said...

Mark said @ 05:05

'Does anybody know what the troll is going on about?'

Not a clue. BDS is a such wretched condition I feel sorry for whoever lives with him/her/it.

Steve

Anonymous said...

@Mark @YDG and pals.

You should get out a bit more (intellectually, that is, until lock down is lifted). An easy step is to google 'operation last gasp'.

Smoking Scot said...

@ Span Ows

Oh we've got stacks of choice with MG gaining market share like crazy. Also Toyota make cars here, while Nissan are beefing up their presence. Mini will stay, though all are foreign owned.

At the luxury end, Rolls and Bentley do very well and now both have SUV's in their product range, things can only get better. Jaguar/Land Rover are not doing so good, though the new Defender will help. Unfortunately that model is made in the EU mainland.

Then there's the eccentric Brit stuff. Aston Martin has been taken over by a consortium with an understanding they'll remain in the UK. Morgan have a full order book and the usual waiting list for some models. I love their 3 wheeler. Completely impractical though it sells very well.

Bristol is still in business making the staid 4 door and have developed a super GT. Ariel makes a track car that is road legal - just.

McLaren, well what can one say. Their Sportstail is a thing of beauty, but few over age 60 could ever contort to get into it!

However one that you probably never heard of is back in business. The Peel!

https://p50cars.com

Not just a 50cc version, also a 125 and that futuristic two seater. Not cheap, probably best built from one of their kits. Completely nuts, but they really are doing quite well, far better than the original company.

Still with the 8 inch wheels - presumably very amusing at 55 mph.

Span Ows said...

Smoking Scot, Peel..yes, that is a new one on me. Another we both forgot is LTC (well, now the LEVC) London Taxi Company.

Span Ows said...

Smoking Scot, I thought i had replied, maybe it's still queuing in moderation.

There is also the London Taxi Company (makers of the black cab). Now called the LEVC

Greg T said...

Gove is an IDIOT WANKER ...
BoZo/Gove/the other Brexiters all need the US more than the US needs the UK, which means the US is the one dictating terms.
Hence the chlorinated chicken, selling off the NHS, and the long laundry list of things the US private sector wants and that the EU has thwarted.
YES?

Anonymous said...

@Raedwald

It seems that you object to posts that provide information on the performance of Mr. Gove, such as the article on setting up and (inadequately) funding the Academy for 50,000 Brexit customs officials.

Perhaps you object to an educational discussion. Maybe you prefer to shied your readers from realpolitik.

You might find this publication of interest. It makes for bracing reading and includes statements such as this one - "But the UK will be responsible for applying EU law; any additional flexibilities agreed will only be available if the EU trusts the UK to manage the border".

see page 7/71 of https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/implementing-brexit-northern-ireland-protocol.pdf

Anonymous said...

Mikey is now proposing to let EU goods flow into GB with 'light touch' checks.

You're pally with former Ministers @Raedwald. You should get one of them to remind Mikey that he can't discriminate EU imports. Something to do with WTO regulations. Delingpole's your expert on that topic. Under Mikey's plan, any other country can send good to GB on a par with imports from the EU.

Take back control - isn't that what you've been saying @Raedwald. Please explain how that's going to work.