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Monday, 4 March 2019

Treaty of Versailles 2019

One hundred years ago Germany was humiliated by the Treaty of Versailles.

The German delegation was summoned to Versailles and presented with the terms of the Treaty - massive reparations to be paid, a land-grab, onerous restrictions on Germany's future freedoms, continuing interference by the allies in Germany's affairs. The German delegation was told negotiation of the terms was not possible - it was take it or leave it.

Germany's first democratically elected PM, Philipp Scheidemann, resigned rather than sign such a treaty. In an impassioned speech he said
Which hand, trying to put us in chains like these, would not wither? The treaty is unacceptable.
But after Scheidemann, Ebert, as we know, did sign. It later cost him his life. The humiliation of the treaty was so unbearable for Germany it barely lasted fourteen years before conditions allowed Hitler to take power.

It is said that if we fail to learn from the errors of history we are forced to repeat them. As I see Selmayr's smug Moonface smiling superciliously as Britain is forced to accept the Robbins-Selmayr Treaty, a cursed document every bit as humiliating for Britain as Versailles was for Germany, my only surprise is that he is not forcing May to sign it in a railway carriage in the forest of Compiegne.


rapscallion said...

I've said that before on more than one occasion, usually on TCW. Any Briton signing that is signing their death warrant.

DeeDee99 said...

One difference of course is that France and Germany were enemies when the Versailles Treaty was forced on Germany. Whereas the UK and EU are allies and according to the British Establishment they're our friends.

And the other difference is that we haven't been beaten in a long, bloody war. Our Prime Minister surrendered without a shot being fired.

She - and the CON Party she leads - disgust me. Her place in history will be comparable to Lord North.

Jack the dog said...

DeeDee99 is right. Disgust for May and her coterie of fellow traitors is really the only appropriate reaction.

For two years the business of gevernment has been on hold while this web of deceit and betrayal has been woven and in May's communitarian, authoritarian instincts have been on display at all times when anything has been done.

Now we have the grotesque image of ex paras being put on trial again over bloody sunday, as Boris rightly points out in the telegraph; in the absence of any new evidence, and solely to throw a bone at sinn fein. It is impossible not to conclude that this is back stop related.

This is the true measure of May's appalling, dismal achievement in government.

I cannot find words adequately to express my utter disgust and loathing for this woman and what she has done.

Stephen J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Raedwald said...

I shall be taking a tough line on Trolls for this post. Keep OT please.

DiscoveredJoys said...

It's been reported Geoffrey Cox has given up on changing the backstop and has switched to trying to amend the arbitration methodology for it.

All the signs of another set of dashed hopes, just like Cameron. Wrecked on the rocks of EU intransigence.

If the Withdrawal Agreement is unchanged we should just walk away and sort out any issues later. No Deal is better than no democracy.

Domo said...

My Primary concern remains that like Versailles, it will require a bloody war to undo.
Or nukes

John Brown said...

The EU are not going to budge as long as there still exists a possibility that we will sign up to this treacherous treaty.

I can only hope therefore that there will still be sufficient numbers of MPs who believe in freedom and democracy and will refuse to vote for the deal even if they then go on to vote for not leaving without a deal and delaying Article 50.

In fact I am expecting this to happen as kicking the can down the road will be the most popular Parliamentary option and will only change after a GE.

In the long-term I believe that the EU will become increasingly unpopular in the UK, if not throughout most of the EU, as it continues to force through laws, taxes and policies for which it has no democratic mandate and if we still have it on the record that we voted leave and have technically left then we will always have a chance to climb out of the hole that Mrs. May and her 200 EU-supporting Conservative colleagues in Parliament have deliberately dug us into.

I shall keep voting for Brexit supporting candidates and purchasing as few EU goods as possible.

Budgie said...

The Remain establishment likes to say that we Leaves are thick. Their thinking goes: we're not Leaves; therefore we're not thick; therefore we're clever. It hasn't really worked, has it?

In any negotiation, if you want something from the other side you will have to give them something in return. That is why Art50 is a trap. That is why I advocated walking away from the EU; not asking them for anything.

In practice, if the UK had done that, we would have been able to agree hundreds of technical matters on such as driving licences, professional qualifications, double taxation, etc, on an individual quid pro quo basis. Not least because most of them already exist with other nations, or are international - rather than EU - agreements.

Repeal of the ECA 1972 and the patriation of EU Regulations together with a notice period of a year, actioned in 2016, would have given the EU ample time to consider its position. The EU probably would have agreed an RTA. It would not have been as "good" as membership, and the EU would have said so, thereby protecting its flanks from the likes of Italy and Denmark.

But by God it could not have been anything like as bad as Theresa May's Treaty of Versailles 2019.

Anonymous said...

The EU need do nothing to punish the UK, and it won't.

10% shrinkage - and the rest - in GDP, a loss of its enormous influence over twenty-seven other countries, and its descent to pariah-laughing-stock status in the world, entirely self-inflicted, does more than enough.

Do calm down, petals.

Raedwald said...

Once we have (metaphorically, of course) strangled the last treasonous mandarin with the intestines of the last May-government minister, to coin a phrase, then I'm sure things will become calmer.

mongoose said...

It was not Article 50, Budgie, that was the mistake. It is the Withdrawal Agreement. There is no need for one. A future relationship piece of paper - or pieces such as you list - would then have flowed. But that was never the intention.

The idea that the government is doing this by mistake is a flawed one. Everything is going to plan. It is a panto.

Mark said...

How does an extension to article 50 stand, legally, with the fact that we will leave on 29th

If Treason's "deal" passes it will need to be changed. Do they think that a few changes to the so called backstop will be sufficient?

If it is passed, those MPs who pass it for reasons of party advantage don't seem to understand that their parties could well be wiped out.

The underlying dynamic hasn't changed. If anything it's getting worse.

France is becoming ungovernable. The so-called European "parliament" could be packed with "populists" in a few months. The Euro strains are getting worse (this is the real killer). The visegrad group are serious about resisting the invasion etc etc.

If they do pass Treason's deal they will have to answer for it sooner than they think.

I am angry, very angry but I don't despair as our fundamentals are better than theirs. It just means that leaving will be more prolonged and protracted

jack ketch said...

It really is very simple, the clue is in the name: A Politician will always do that which seems politic to him or her. May's deal will almost certainly pass. Oh sorry, were yous expecting politicians like JRM, Davis or Bojo to stand strong? Were you expecting any politician to keep their word, to keep to their manifesto promises?
To quote a wiser man than me: "You know when they said 'Brexit Means Brexit'? They lied!"

before conditions allowed Hitler to take power.

The parallels between then and now, in the UK, are many and not just limited to calls for 'Lebensraum' or 'FREEDOM' -to put it in the brexiteer. Dolchstoß, anyone?

Mark said...

Ere, who in the UK is asking for lebensraum?

The Reich is after lebensraum in the Ukraine. Didn't end well last time and the gas fields are rather further than Caspian sea oilfields.

Raedwald said...

You speak truly Jack. Yet a large part of me believed them when they proclaimed they'd stand on their principles. Yes, I think they'll all meekly fold - their careers are more important to them than their principles, after all.

And those parallels scare me. The 'Stabbed-in-the-back by the ERG and Conservative Party' narrative will gain traction with no help from me. UKIP is turning into a scary thuggish youth street-action movement led by Yaxley and other You Tube demagogues with 100s of thousands of followers - numbers that make this blog an irrelevance.

And the signs are we're heading into an economic downturn to rival that of the 1920s.

And one of the reasons I ride the EU's lack of democracy so heavily is that it's bad enough when it's run by a cabal of benign technocrats who think they know what's best for everyone - but what if all those anti-democratic structures were used by an incoming majority of political extremists?

The EU's desire to punish Britain will blow back at them - the Mogenthau approach is ALWAYS wrong. For if they cripple us, they deprive themselves of a strong, stable ally when times get tough.

Anonymous said...

Versailles probably did lead to WWII.

Here, Peter Hitchens explores some aspects of that, in a way that I think some readers here will find interesting.

Mark said...

It was Foch himself who said "this isn't peace. It's an armistice for 20 years"

He was out by 3 months.

Anonymous said...

The price of gold has plunged to well below $1000/oz, which is a sign that the markets do not expect significant global disorder or conflict, whatever the usual hallucinators here might say.

The good news gets better, with the fact that bitcoin has lost around $500 in the last week or so too, especially as it normally moves counter to gold.

Raedwald said...

Yes, Gold hasn't been this low since, er, 25th January.

I'm sure that's of interest to the 726m people of Europe, 446m of whom are in EU27 nations.

Keep OT please.

wiggiatlarge said...

" a loss of its enormous influence over twenty-seven other countries,"

You obviously don't follow the machinations of the EU, not only do we have little say in matters, see D.Cameron, but what little individual countries had is now being further diluted......

Raedwald said...

This isn't a forum for EU agitprop or distorted semi-truths.

Sorry Troll but you're annoying too many of my regulars

Anonymous said...

Reality is what is annoying your regulars, Raedwald. And it's going to get far, far worse for them.

Blong van Bling said...

An odd fellow your troll.
But then, all trolls are odd.

It’s an odd disease.

Dave_G said...

Collectively, the issues currently at stake and the circumstances surrounding them have disconcerting similarities to pre-war conditions of the past.

But this also extends beyond the borders of Europe and, globally, we appear to be headed towards very dire times indeed.

Blong van Bling said...

But then again you could let his comments speak for themselves.

Raedwald said...

Sorry, this isn't a platform for pro-EU propaganda and the lies and half truths that litter this troll's considerable efforts to divert reader comment away from the subject of the blog post to unrelated matters.

I will not have the agenda of this blog and the comments sections set by an EU Troll.

They have been given numerous chances to post on topic and in relation to the posts. They have flouted this constantly, despite several warnings that comments breaching these conditions would be deleted.

I have been as patient and tolerant as anyone could be. However, their disruptive intentions are quite clear. If they wish to post a link below to a website or blog where anyone interested may go to read what they have to say I am happy to do so.

jack ketch said...

Yet a large part of me believed them when they proclaimed they'd stand on their principles.- Raed

Well 'we will respect the referendum result' does sound good until one stops and thinks about what they are actually saying. A bit like that old joke about that German employer writing a reference "er war stets bemüht pünktlich zu sein" ["he always tried to be on time"].
I respect any man's belief in, say, the Lizard Men or even cake bearing unicorns, doesn't mean I agree nor feel compelled to act accordingly.

Budgie said...

Gold is currently just under $1300 per ounce; and has not "plunged" anywhere, and certainly not below $1000/oz. In fact the trend over the last few months (low of about $1170/oz Aug 2018) is gently rising, which indicates some concern over current world affairs (and, no, Brexit is probably not one of them).

Dr Evil said...

We are about to find out if a NO DEAL will replace the utterly catastrophic 'deal' for the UK (brilliant for the EU)which is May's WA.