Yes, it's a question we've asked before. This time, no one seems to know. Everyone on our side is terrified that Boris will have given away too much, whilst the Remainers are praying that Boris won't concede enough to allow the EU to change May's Surrender Treaty, thus giving them scope for a second cancelling Referendum (which they will lose if it allows a single Leave option).
No one can get angry until the deal is published. We don't know what the deal proposes. Journalists know no more than I do - they stood outside the Berlaymont last night counting the lit windows and reporting the times at which the lights went out (most by 2.30, it seems).
So our barrels are charged with powder and shot, slow match is burning, and we are waiting. Ready to douse the match and fetch the shot-screw or otherwise.
20 comments:
We await another betrayal by the useless tories.
Radders quite so; they are keeping us in suspenders as we used to say...
I suspect they are cooking up a reheat of May's deal with some cosmetic changes to get it through parliament and I sense a 60-70% probability of success.
I also think the key thing is no so much the deal per se (assuming there is one) but what happens next. Hopefully that will be wholesale deselection of remainer tory MPs in time for a general election early in the new year.
After that, there is some chance of some welcome reforms; after all Johnson seems to be sound in quite a lot of important areas.
And in the medium term there needs to start a general disengagement from the EU and re-engagement with RoW in particular the Anglosphere.
Lot ifs and maybes in there but there is some hope, and that is the general mood of the country as well once you look beyond the metropolitan bubble and the BBC.
I don't know what your last sentence is meant to mean, but I doubt if there will be much trouble if your rather particular wishes are frustrated.
Analysis shows that up to about 2014, only a few percent of British people thought that our European Union membership was a significant issue in their lives.
By the end of the silly campaign, it had risen to over eighty percent.
That shows that the whole thing is basically a load of televisualised, footballified froth. It's just something about which people take a side, and allow themselves to become emotional, but without any moral or intellectual conviction, as they do over much that's taking up their goggle time on the box.
They might just have something to say about losing their jobs and homes though.
Pre 2014 many people just put up with the EU in the same way they put up with death and taxes. When they were given the chance to do something about it they did.
Pensioners tend to vote, the BBC should remember that when deciding on license fee.
Dunno what sort of analysis you used cheesy, but the UK has been minded to leave the EEC/EU bloc since 1983.
There are only a small bunch of remoaners who have no idea of the power and meaning of democracy, and are willing to trash it for their dangerous fascist project. We seem to be blessed with one right here in these columnar regions.
From a few % to over 80%.
A more succinct summary of the total and utter failure of project fear no leaver could have come up with.
The troll has its uses!
JPM @ 08:16
I knew that if I waited long enough I'd catch you lying, and now is the time.
From 2005, Thew Independent used to run a monthly poll. It consistently found that the percentage wanting to leave was 52% and sometimes more, but never less than 50%. So this arrant drivel about only a few percent is a lie and you are a liar, but then we all knew that didn't we boys and girls?
Moreover Cheesy if losing my home and job were the price I had to personally pay to ensure a full clean Brexit then it would be a price worth paying. You can't buy freedom.
Yes, the establishemnt were remarkably successful for many years in blanking the effects of EU membership from the public consciousness - thus enabling the collaborators to get Lisbon and Maastricht through without riots on the streets. However, even if the number of activists keeping the issue alive was small, they had impact - Jimmy Goldsmith, Alan Sked, Richard North and Christopher Booker. Not to forget Nigel in the early days, long before taking 4m votes. Despite a press and media deaf to warnings about the EU, they struggled on.
It was I think the democratisation of information that came with the internet from the mide-late 90s onward though that has enabled the issue to escape the nets and barriers of the establishment MSM - and once free, they had no choice but report on it.
EU membership was never a metter that people would not have cared about had they been allowed access to the facts. We can thank Tim B-L for changing all that.
Leaving the EU is turning out to be like trying to escape a tar baby. Bits of the tar baby keep sticking to you and fouling your freedom of movement (no, not that Freedom of Movement).
I would prefer a clean Brexit, even if there is the temporary discomfort of wrenching off a sticky patch. However if we have to undergo a transition period of gently peeling away the EU tar tentacles, so be it. We are better off out, and as the end of the transition period approaches it will be easier to move smartly to walking away or declining to jump through new hoops.
I thought Al Gore invented the internet......
Either way, issues that were once the remit of the Government/MSM are now open to public scrutiny and, as you said Raed, the people have woken to the deceit and this is why there is now a concerted effort to bring in control over the internet.
Even exposure of Cheesy's lies and obfuscations is worth defending the internet for - issues such as MM Climate Change will also come to a head and be exposed for the lies they are. The Extinction Rebellion cause are simply drawing too much attention to the issue and it is people TALKING about it (like Brexit) that does so much damage to the (fake) cause. Just as talking about the EU exposes the corruption, waste and lack of democracy therein.
JPM said @ 08:16
'Analysis shows that up to about 2014, only a few percent of British people thought that our European Union membership was a significant issue in their lives.'
You're simply not credible mate. Our membership of this project has pissed more people off than anything I've ever known. Folk just put up with it knowing full well they'd never have a say. Then suddenly we did. And guess what: the majority of people actually voted to leave the European Union. You don't agree we should leave. Fine. However it doesn't alter the fact we voted to leave. Leave was the democratic choice of 17.4 million people. If you don't respect that choice perhaps democracy is not for you. I believe there are still a few countries around the world that could accommodate you.
Steve
"Udo Ulfkotte died of a heart attack in January 2018"
Here we see why the British government will never 'reform' the BBC.
And why Theresa May called for restrictions on the Internet, "for the children", natch.
And thirdly, why increasingly, we see the likes of JPM aka Cheesy infesting these 'ere interwebs.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/10/paul-craig-roberts/journalists-are-prostitutes/
"I thought Al Gore invented the internet......"
He pushed, successfully, for Congress to set up a budget for the development of the Internet. That is what he claims: he has never claimed to have invented the technology.
If you think the Internet is a good thing, then you should allow him some credit.
Don Cox
The country was always against “ever closer union” and only joined the Common Market because Mr. Heath and others lied that we would not lose any sovereignty. He’s even admitted on camera that this was a lie.
It was the lack of referendums for subsequent treaties, particularly Maasticht and then Lisbon with its vastly extended QMV, together with the internet and Mr. Farage/UKIP which woke the nation up to what was in store for them if they continued EU membership.
Finally, pressured by the increasing popularity of UKIP, democracy prevailed and the country was given a referendum and voted to leave the EU despite being told by the Government, the BoE, the bankers, the corporates, the CBI, the IMF, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the POTUS, the EU etc. that simply voting to leave would bring economic disaster.
So biased was the BBC and the MSM the EU’s UK collaborators believed that they would win easily.
Although many believed this false project fear and voted remain still sufficient numbers of people took the view that retaining some influence over their laws by being able to elect and remove those who govern them was more important than a few pieces of silver.
The fact that this threat did not materialise will mean that should there be a second referendum even more people will vote to leave, especially as they are better informed as to how the EU Empire intends to grow in the number of nations it wants to absorb and grow its competancy in all areas of our life but with no democratic mandate.
All this time the EU’s collaborators said that the EU had little affect on our lives and deliberately held back information which would inform the public of where their laws and policies were originating. Now of course these collaborators say that we are so intertwined with the EU that it is impossible to leave!
Hopefully we will effect some sort of leave so that slowly we can work ourselves free from the EU Empire bit by bit and regain our sovereignty.
It will take time to deal with all the EU’s corrupt practices in the UK for which we are paying £1bn/month but hopefully this will be starting shortly.
I'm already angry at the last 3 and a half years of Establishment shenanigans intended to overturn the Referendum or, at the very least, ensure all we get is Brino.
I fully expect Boris to do what all previous PMs have done since Heath: betray us and lie to us about the consequences of the "deal" he's cooked up.
LEt's see if we are on the same page. Boris has just spunked about a 100 million on his PR Agency pals to hoodwink the Brexit Brigade with a worse deal, a break up of the union, exhibiting his manhood by quietly (no news leaks!) dropping his trousers to concede in haste.
Take back control?
Last minute concessions from BWM and Prosecco producers?
You're having a laff!
If you want to know the UK’s true position in the EU negotiations then it is necessary to listen to the EU and not their UK supporters.
Back in November 2018 President Macron explained the Withdrawal Treaty to his fishermen thus :
“The UK will be trapped in a customs union after Brexit unless Downing Street offers European fishermen full access to British waters during the coming trade negotiations.”
Or Verhofstadt’s staff who described Mrs. May’s WA treaty as reducing the UK to a permanent colony of the EU.
This week both Merkel and Macron have voiced their concerns that a UK free from the EU Empire would become a strong competitor to the EU and not suffer the economic disaster so trumpeted by the UK’s EU supporters.
It is quite clear that the Irish border issue has nothing to do with maintaining the GFA and everything to do with chaining down the UK to the EU’s SM/CU to ensure we do not show the world through competition just how dreadful is the anti-democratic and increasingly authoritarian ever-expanding EU Empire.
@John Brown
Most UK fishermen sold their fishing rights to EU fishermen. Even out of the EU, those rights won't come back without hard cash changing hands.
Look no further than Michael Gove's dad.
You could vote Corby to nationalize, of course.
Post a Comment