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Monday, 19 August 2019

Hammond beware; leaking ex-ministers should be jailed

During the remainiacs' long campaign of sabotage and attrition from inside government against Brexit, they made full use of an often willing and compliant civil service in creating material to support their Project Fear narrative. Such, we suspect, was the Yellowhammer file, a document that has Hammond's Treasury all over it. Yellowhammer was a scare too far. Sunday's papers reported that even civil service hearts weren't really in it, so absurd and far-fetched were some of the inventions. The May-sanctioned semi-official leakers from Cabinet clearly decided at the time that the thing was just too ludicrous to be credibly leaked.

And so Mr Hammond, it seems, was left with this unused carefully constructed work of semi-fiction. All that creative energy to no end. Until it seems the last few days, when a copy was mysteriously left in a Whitehall pub used by journalists. Mr Hammond has denied that he was responsible, and we must believe him.

However, if Mr Hammond should ever be tempted to leak any other cabinet documents, or material that he is bound both by his privy-council oath and the Official Secrets Act not to disclose, he should be aware that this is not a government inclined to forgiveness, and any such actions could leave him banged up in Belmarsh. 


JPM said...

If the UK does leave with no proper arrangements, and the warnings in the report turn out to be true, and as was indicated, people die as a result of say, medicine shortages, then what should be done with the ministers, who not only ignored the best advice available, but who also concealed it?

r_writes esq. said...

I suppose if JPM did not previously exist that Raedwald might well have made him up?

Mark said...


I take it you mean Hammond?

Raedwald said...

Perhaps we should also nominate someone to blame in the event of Berkshire being invaded by small green aliens dressed in pink taffeta tutus ...

JPM said...

Aye, engineers warned about the 737 Max.

They were blithely dismissed too.

DiscoveredJoys said...


Based on the Remainer tantrums to date every death, every stubbed toe, every traffic accident will be blamed on Brexit. Just as the supposed jump in hate crimes after the Referendum turned out to be a Remainer confection.

People will die after Brexit but through old age and accident as normal.

IcyPurplepants said...

@JPM As much as I don't like to "feed the trolls" on these forums, I felt I should re-assure you on the one subject I can speak with some confidence on; namely medicine. I do this in case you, or your loved ones, may be dependent on the supply chain.

I work for one of the top global "Big" (if you must) pharma companies. We, and others in our industry, began preparing for Brexit around 6 months after the referendum. We have always based preparations on "No deal" - worst-case scenario (in some people's view) and were ready for it to happen by the summer of 2017.

Brexit - to the wider world - is not seen as very important (certainly in the pharma-world). We have it currently 8th on our list of global "issues".

So anyway, please stop talking about "medicine shortages", they just are not going to happen. Or at least if they do, they will be caused by specific political activity focused on inventing that problem, rather than a no deal (or nay other kind of) Brexit.

I hope this helps.

Andrew Douglas said...

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government.

Is this not still a crime of which Hammond, Grieve, Clarke, Letwin and Bercow look bang-to-rights guilty?

RAC Esq. said...

Nice one IcyPurplepants a little bit of truth is very refreshing.
@ r_writes esq. 07:55
That thought went through my mind a while back. He fills the long silences but I wish he'd change the fecking record it gets damn tedious.

JPM said...

The only people today killing, and attempting to kill, and threatening to kill, members of our sovereign, democratically-elected Parliament are those on the Right, Douglas, so it is they who commit what any reasonable person would call treason, and no one else.

And DJ, less of the silly Straw Men eh?

IPP thank you, but my example was a mere "for instance" among the many conceivable difficulties.

DiscoveredJoys said...


"And DJ, less of the silly Straw Men eh?"

If you don't like it don't start it.

RAC Esq. said...

@ 09:13
Oh FFS YOU troll prat JPM
Andrew Douglas gave a copy paste which contained ALL the definitions and you in your usual predictable boring way seized on the ONE which was inappropriate.
What about OVERTHROW, I think that fits bercow who does not seem to know what impartial means....
" John Bercow has met MPs determined to stop Britain crashing out of EU
Just last week Mr Bercow said he would halt any attempts to suspend parliament
He vowed to personally challenge Mr Johnson if he tried to push no deal through"

John Brown said...

We’ve already had more than once long queues at Dover well before the Brexit referendum thanks to our French “friends”, we’ve even had temporary medicine shortages and I expect some favourite foods have even been in short supply from time to time.

However, all these issues pale into insignificance compared to our country regaining its freedom and our retaining the right to elect and remove those who govern us.

The WA treaty “negotiated” by Mrs. May, a remainer, was not leaving - we would have accepted EU laws, budgets, taxes, fines and policies (trade, energy, environment, foreign, immigration etc) but without representation or veto and with no lawful means of exit – a Treaty described by Mr. Verhofstadt’s staff as reducing the UK to EU colony status.

It was such a good deal for the EU that they are not prepared to make any changes whilst they still believe there is a chance that Parliament can effect a coup against the people of this country and stop Brexit.

A treaty where Mr. Macron described the UK position thus :

“The UK will be trapped in a customs union after Brexit unless Downing Street offers European fishermen full access to British waters during the coming trade negotiations.”

So either we leave on WTO terms (as remainers described the position during the referendum) or we remain in the EU either as a full member, including joining the Euro, Schengen and the EU army or as a colony of the EU.

The world is watching us to see if we are still a democracy and will implement the result of the referendum given to us by Parliament.

JPM said...

A minority of the population, about one-in-four voted Leave. The result was marginal, if one-in-fifty had voted the other way, the result would have been Remain.

The claims of ALL the Leave campaigns were that there would be a deal, and that it would not be problematic.

There cannot reasonably be a claim then, that at least forty-nine out of fifty Leave voters wanted a no-deal exit, and that they understood what that would mean. In any case the voters were not asked about the post-exit arrangements.

So there cannot conceivably be a popular majority for one.

Parliament is therefore right, as a matter of simple fact, to try to prevent it.

John Brown said...

I’ve see a very good suggestion to reduce the queues at Dover.

Should these queues arise, even though Calais has said there won’t be a problem, we should stop ROI lorries boarding ferries across the Irish Sea bound for Calais.

Mark said...

@John Brown


What "deal" precisely" are we going to get to prevent the apocalypse of "crashing out"?

The only one - which the EU have been pretty clear ain't going to change - is Treason's WA.

I would assume that all this "national unity government" intends is another extension (hasn't this been ruled out as well?) and that they can then gerrymander another referendum.

Well, best if luck with that!

JPM said...

The European Union has anticipated and planned for that, JB.

They know what they are dealing with.

Mr Ecks said...

JPM or Cheesy or whichever traitor you are--didn't your middle class leftist Mummy tell you that lying was a sin? And stupid in your case. The fact is that scummy remainiac liars and grovelling traitors like you have been an invaluable asset to the Leave cause. Any one with blood in their veins listening to your lies and your crawling EU dick-sucking is inspired to fight all the more for Brexit--just to see the look on the faces of lying mugs like you when we are out.

These last 3 years have woken the world to the true nature of the globo-elite and the scum who support them. Stupid scum because the globos have no better fate planned for their crawling pals than for the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

"A minority of the population, about one-in-four voted Leave. The result was marginal, if one-in-fifty had voted the other way, the result would have been Remain."

desperate clutching at straws there luv.

It could be pointed out that, without the six months of 'what if' doom laden 'death of the first born' almost Biblical scare stories about Leaving put about by HMG-EU partnership et remainiac al, then the result would have better reflected the electorate wanting to leave and very likely some 60-40% in favour of OUT.

JPM said...

Ecky, lying is when you *know* what you are saying to be false, such as that the European Union costs the UK three hundred and fifty million pounds a week, when the head of ONS has explained to you more than once that it does not..

Some of the things that I have said might turn out to be inaccurate down to error or to whatever, but I sincerely believed them to be correct at the time.

That is not lying. Now look at the Leave side.

JPM said...

Anon, if plenty of the electorate did not fall for lies, then there would never have been a Tory government since WWII and probably for decades before too.

From here, it looks to me, that without the many years of industrial-scale lies from the American and aristocracy-owned UK press, the referendum would have been eighty-five to fifteen Remain.

But it was what it was, and so the UK will leave.

You won. Get over it.

Dave_G said...

Much as I am for free speech it is about time Raed stopped JPM from spouting his repeated fallacies and made-up examples of Brexit, the percentages, the 'deal' etc etc.

JPM clearly doesn't understand the meaning of words such as 'democracy', 'populism' etc and is simply wasting time and space regurgitating the same lies and obfuscations ad infinitum.

There are videos of the major players admitting that Brexit meant (KNOWINGLY) leaving without a deal, the idea that the vote was 'illegal' or invalid due to numbers is simply ridiculous and the scaremongering has been repeatedly shown to be fabrication.

I'd be happy for a deal - the deal would be "the UK gets its sovereignty back, retains control of its seas and borders and trades openly with the EU - the EU gets the same for their borders, their seas and their trade".

That's it. Equality. And given the EU needs our markets more than we need theirs, this deal is more favourable to them than us so what's to complain about?

The UK - indeed ANY country - shouldn't have to pay one cent for access. If anything the EU could cream off a percentage of all sales (it does anyway via VAT) and leave it at that. Countries are paying to create a separate, unaccountable, dictatorial, over-zealous, regulating, oppressive and expansionist cabal that have zero interest in the population (else they'd get permission at every step of the way) that are over-riding national interests, creating debt, confusion and xenophobia on their way to their totalitarian future.

Fuck the EU. Fuck the likes of JPM that is blind to it. Celebrate democracy and ensure the popular will of those entitled and bothered to vote is carried out WITHOUT DELAY and without misinterpretation.

We voted to LEAVE THE EU. We should have left over 2 years ago.


Fearful Ned said...

So anyway, please stop talking about "medicine shortages", they just are not going to happen. Or at least if they do, they will be caused by specific political activity focused on inventing that problem, rather than a no deal (or nay other kind of) Brexit.

I hope this helps.

That doesn't help Cheerful at all. He WANTS the misery. To prove he was correct all along.

RAC Esq. said...

@ Dave_G 11:29
You missed out, smug conceited word conjuring number juggler, AKA globo fraud and con artist.

JPM said...

You haven't a clue what I want or do not, FN, but you will claim that you know whatever I say, so enjoy your imaginings.

Dave, I don't see your problem. It looks very much like the UK will leave the European Union, and yet you are as distressed as ever.

What is the matter with you?

John Brown said...

JPM @ 10:00 : “The European Union has anticipated and planned for that, JB.”

So, what’s the plan then please, JPM ?

As someone who lives in Kent, I hope it’s a direct link from the ROI to the Continent so as to reduce congestion and pollution on the M25, the Dartford Crossing and roads to Dover and the Tunnel.

All of which are used by the rEU without charge.

RAC Esq. said...

Hmmmm without charge............yet. Ask not for whom the bell "tolls"

JPM said...

Aid to Ireland, to offset additional costs in sea routes all the way to the Mainland - and others, as I understand it, JB.

We have no idea as yet, what the charges might be under No Deal, for UK freight to use the infrastructure on the Mainland, either for the European Union's market or for places beyond, RAC.

One thing is sure though. The UK needs that, far more than the European Union needs the UK's.

Doesn't it?

Span Ows said...

Not sure about the exact count but there are at least 20 strawmen in JPM comments ion this thread alone.

I'll pick a couple: no lies re 350 mil (as you know [and as has now been proven in court!]) so a 100% straight-up strawman...or should I say 'lie' by JPM.

Another: he calls 'liars' all those people said it would be easy to get a deal. They weren't lying, they were stating what would happen if all was normal. Imagine you said "Tomorrow it will be easy to catch a bus" but the bus company - intentionally and to spite YOU - stops all the buses running, then calls you a liar...yeah, ban to rights guv. An ridiculous example I admit, to highlight your ridiculous waffling.

I would say 99.9999% of all the lies from the Referendum campaign came form the Remain side.

Sackerson said...

While I share the irritation of some here with the politicians and others who have gone back on their word / votes in Parliament / manifesto commitments in order to try to subvert the results of the Referendum, I think proving treason would be technically impossible.

What they are trying to do, in effect, is to restore / maintain in force ECA 1972, which Lord Justice Laws ruled in the "Metric Martyrs" case was merely an Act enabling secondary legislation (though of a higher kind than most other such Acts and so able to override relevant parts of later Acts of Parliament where they conflict with it.) The judge ruled that Parliament is sovereign at all times and cannot give it away without abolishing itself.

So delegating powers to the EU is not permanently giving away sovereignty (otherwise ECA 1972 could not be repealed) and those who want current arrangements to continue cannot be convicted of surrendering the government of the country to a foreign power.

That's not to say that prosecution for revealing State secrets might not be appropriate; or impeachment?

JPM said...

You cannot blame people of an opposing view for prosecuting their aims as effectively as they can.

It was Nigel Farage after all, who said that a fifty-two to forty-eight percent Remain result "would not be finished business by any means" wasn't it?

Hardly surprising really, as he and his kind never even accepted a seventy to thirty result.

Mark said...

Given the massive deficit we have with them I would question that.

Dave_G said...

We might not be able to push a case for treason but we can certainly do it for malfeasance in office.

If, after three years knowledge of a no deal exit, our political leaders and their minions have FAILED to make the necessary arrangements to cover for difficulties, losses, delays etc then they have singularly FAILED in their duty.

Hammond should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, as should all the remoaners in the various ministries that have NEGLECTED to work to the benefit of the British public and economy.

Banning them from public office for life, massive fines and/or jail sentences should be encouraged or, rather, demanded.

JPM said...

Dave, this is not a Soviet-style Command Economy.

The goods and services on offer here are almost entirely provided by private companies, who are free to conduct their operations within the law as they see fit.

What do you expect civil servants etc. to do, to compel them to work in such a way that you are caused no problems by disruption to these countless private businesses?

John Brown said...

JPM @ 14:02 :

“Yes”, the EU may decide to give aid to Ireland to pay for the extra costs of shipping between themselves, but this isn’t going to solve the problem of queuing lorries at Dover from 01/11/2019 unless the EU has in place right now a frequent and reliable ferry service.

I have no problem with the EU charging UK lorries for using their road network and vice versa, particularly since the UK has a £100bn/YEAR trading deficit with the EU.

Also, any reduction in the back and forth transport of part made components across the channel will be good for the environment and UK suppliers.

JPM said...

The European Union does not need the UK's ports, roads, rail and airspace to reach any other of its markets.

It accounts for about half of the UK's external markets, but the UK is only a few percent in return.

If the UK sold a bit more to the whole world than it bought from it, then do you think that that would enable the UK to bully the whole world?

No. So why do you imagine for one moment that it will be able to bully the European Union on that basis?

Mark said...

"Doesn't need UK airspace"?

Do you know what airspace actually is?

Dave_G said...

Do you understand the meaning of malfeasance? Hammond has been found out to have deliberately NOT advised business to prepare for No deal. That, in and of itself, was a culpable act against the interests of the country.

These none action positions by Hammond et al have been taken as deliberate acts to subvert the leave process - how else could they be seen?

Along with their pronouncements that basically advertise their incompetence (ie the problems we're told we will face) they have no defence to offer against a charge of malfeasance. I understand the fines for those found guilty include a ban from public office amongst other things.

Are you prepared to defend Hammond stance?

And, no, the EU doesn't need UK ports etc to reach its other customers but it DOES need the UK markets...... as the recent state of the German economy shows.

This whole situation boils down to one simple fact - that an independent UK may show the rest of Europe that the EU (as a political construct) does NOTHING for business or economies and a successful FREE UK exposes the EU as pointless and a worthless expensive waste of time. The EU don't want that to happen hence their intransigence.

John Brown said...

JPM @ 09:56 :

You’re trying to change the rules again!

Parliament set the rules for the referendum and leave won. Leave won not only the most votes but by constituency they won by 64:36. So if Parliament prevents Brexit then the world will know we longer live in a democracy.

Post Brexit arrangements may not be fully defined, but then neither is remaining in the EU, especially when we’ve been lied to by successive pro EU politicians for decades.

But at least with Brexit we have a chance of influencing how Brexit looks whilst remaining in the EU we would have no influence or control at all and thus we wouldn’t know where we’re heading

Raedwald said...

OK JPM that's enough for today. Go down to the pub and annoy those Leavers ...

m davies said...

12 out of 40 posts by JPM! This site is becoming boring!

Span Ows said...

Boring? m davies, are you JPM in disguise? Boring is what he wants. Trolls ususally are sometimes abusive and spray hate and anti-semitism in an attempt to get blogs shut down; others are ludricrously 'debate-less' (as is the Left in general) and stand out like sore thumbs; others more 'quiet' but stubborn and determined and blinkered making regulars exasperated and the abuse comes the other way. When I say quiet I mean not shouty, JPM is anything but quiet in the number of posts but that is common when there are multiple answerers to his whittering.

There are two options, engage or ignore.

Dioclese said...

It is a great shame that treason no longer carries the death penalty.
You may be able to think of a few suitable candidate but I, of course, couldn't possibly comment...

m davies said...

Ok Span Ows, I know, just exasperated! Bad days at the moment! Sorry, Raedwald!